Genealogy Chat

There is an entry in the LG for June 1861, where Richard Massey a Victual ,of High Leigh, Rosthenre Parish , Cheshire. appears at the Guildhall, City of Westminster.

I dont know the outcome of the case..

But how would a case for a person from Cheshire be held at Westminster. does that imply he was trading in London? How can i find more on the back ground to this case- and the result... I am presuming that a Victual in this case is either a provision provider, or a wine merchant and not the owner of a pub.

Thank you

I think Victual will just be an abbreviation of Victualler.

What date in June was this, please?


Is this relevant?

"In 1861 the Court of Bankruptcy was confined to London and was afterwards known as the London Court of Bankruptcy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commissioner_of_Bankruptcy_(England_and_Wales)

Margaret, do you have any other information on Richard Massey?


'Victual' refers to 'food'

For example; 'there was much victual at the party'

No further on this Richard I am afraid, onlywhat was was shown in the London gazette. To appear in June 1816. Page 899

Really I am looking for details on Charles Massey of Denfield ,who is described as a gentleman on many documents and as a victular on the baptism of his son John, in feb 1705. At Rostherne parish registers.
Since Charles also seems t o have been ,with his younger brother Richard raising mortgages in the year 1703 on the Denfield estate , I thought he might have become some sort of merchant through lack of a living.

The later Richard I thought might be a grandson or nephew in the same trade .

Ah, you put a different date on your first post

Sorry mistyped date

London gazette page pop, 899 to apear in June ,1816 at Guildhall ,. via Kings bench, insolvent debtors.

George Atkinson
Richard Massey
William Wallis
Frances walker
They don't seem related cases

Chester Chronicle - Friday 10 May 1816

By order of the Court for the relief of insolvent debtors. The Petition of Richard Massey late of High Leigh in the county of Chester, victualler, now a prisoner for debt in the King's Bench prison, in the county of Surry will be heard in the Guildhall in the city of Westminster on the first day of June 1816 at the hour of 9 in the morning. And that a schedule (containing a list of all the credotors of said prisoner) annexed to the said petition is filed in the office of the said Court....

RICHARD MASSEY
Webb, Agent Newington

could this be john

John Massey
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000


burial:

9 January 1709

, Rostherne, Cheshire, England


residence:

9 January 1709

, Rostherne, Cheshire, England


father:

Mr Charles Massey

Richard Midleton Massey
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000


christening:

29 November 1678

, Rostherne, Cheshire, England


residence:

29 November 1678

, Rostherne, Cheshire, England


father:

Edward Massey


mother:

not given

The item in the Chester chronicle is the correct reference.

Do you know if I could obtain any further details on that case

Charles Massey of Denfield and his younger brother Richard ,on several documents give their address as Denfield , but I suspect they sold it or definitely let it on long term.
They were as younger (3 and,4 ) sons left annuities.by their father George. As he died soon after Richards birth , they would have been in the guardianship of others.
It seems unlikely that the small estate would have supported Charles and Richard and their families.

And the entry for Charles as a victular would indicate that he turned to trade . But I don't know about Richard ,his entries all appear as Gentleman.

But as Richard. was born in 1665 this could be him in old age?

...

To attempt to answer your opening question, Margaret -

as the article says "late of High Leigh", perhaps Richard had moved to the London area before his debts caught up with him.

I thought at first this trade was involved in .provisions for the military . But obviously he wasn't working from High Leigh , a very small hamlet in Rostherne parish .

Although I suppose army horses needed fodder too, he couldn't be my original query as in ,,,1816 he would have been 150 years old.!


But I should still like to know who he was and where he lived what happened to him..

I don't see many items relating to Richard Massey of High Leigh and can't see the result of the court case. Perhaps this is when he sold up?

Chester Courant - Tuesday 17 May 1814

A DESIRABLE ESTATE
To Be Sold By Auction:
At the dwelling house of Mr Richard Massey, known by the sign of the Bear's Paw, in High Leigh, in the county of Chester, on Thursdya 19th May next, between the hours of 5 and six in the afternoon...

There is an article on the history of Denfield in Manchester Times - Friday 29 April 1898, which starts in 1447 and Oliver Massey. The article ends with the Massies in financial decline and the last male in the line dying a few years before the article was written (although it doesn't name them). It's a bit blurry, but I'll sent a copy in case you're interested.

I've usually seen "Victualler" used in the 18th and early 19th centuries as being used for someone running a public house or selling liquor out of their house, they would also usually offer some form of food

Of course, in the early days, the beer and ale would also be made "on site".

It's pinning down the dates for these events.


I am pretty sure the Denfield Hall and farm were sold to a widow living . at Mere Hall, around 1750. The Massey family still I think living at Moss Hall in Audlem. But having lost much if their properties at that date around Wrenbury and Rostherne. .

The twigs of this family still living in Knutsford ,Hoo green , High Leigh, Lymm until today no doubt.

There is an transcript of an indenture dated August 1703 between Charles Massey of Denfield in Rosthenre, gent, and

2. John Leigh of Furnivalls Moore - (I think this is Furnivall Inn of Chancery, London)
3. Elizabeth Brooks of Mere Hall, widow.
3.Dennis Hayford of Millington, Gent, & George Pigot of Manchester, Esq.

reciting the mortgage by C. Massie to Leigh 21 oct 1693

Another mortgage by C. Massie & Richard Massie his younger brother,
to Leigh, 29 Sept 1694.
It appears that they sold the estate to Dennis Hayford who pays £1933,
to Elizabeth Brooks, George Pigot to hold in trust. Denfield Hall and the messuage of Crosse and Harper named.

Both Charles and his brother Richard were just 30 years old in 1693, so it looks as though they borrowed money against this estate .

I presume the main house- The Moss at Audlem, (still standing), stayed with the elder brother William, , whose wife Ann,next married to Peter Egerton, inherited. c 1694.

Both Charles & Richard seem to have been involved in this arrangement in 1694.

I suppose its a case of 'follow the money'