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Death Records including middle names?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


CasCas Report 10 Nov 2017 18:23


I wonder if anyone can help me. Ive been searching for a chap by the name of John Herbert Francis Fox. His estranged family say his dob was 19/4/33 but I am unable to find a birth.

I have however found a death in 1995 in Norfolk of a John Herbert Fox (without the name Francis) giving a dob of 19/4/32 (1 year out). This is a huge coincidence.

What my query is is are there any additional records anywhere that could possibly hold a fuller name ie with an additional middle name? If not I'll have to purchase a death cert

Any advice very gratefully received



malyon Report 10 Nov 2017 18:32

I think this is him birth would be april to june quarter

Births Jun 1932 
John H F fox


malyon Report 10 Nov 2017 18:43

is this his marriage
Marriages Sep 1953   (>99%)

 John H F

did he marry again

Marriages Sep 1973   (>99%)



malyon Report 10 Nov 2017 18:51

found another marriage

John H F Fox
Event Type
Marriage Registration
Registration Quarter
Registration Year
Registration District
Event Place
Lambeth, London, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911)
Line Number
John H F Fox probably married one of the following people
Margaret R Shrapnell


CasCas Report 10 Nov 2017 18:54

Thanks Maylon for the info. I'd found this birth now - cant believe I missed it.

Marrisge wise. Ive found his marriage (an his ex wife) in 1956 to Margaret Shrapnell - thats confirmed.

The marriage in 1953 to Norma Hopkins is a different John as I also traced that family who confirmed this.

The marriage to Sarah Hipwell is actually a typo and shouldve bern John H E Fox as I found out when I traced the wrong family.

Thsnks again


CasCas Report 10 Nov 2017 18:57

Just checked my notes - the birth you found in 1932 is the one I found but the family insist its 1933 not 1932. I think theyre wrong.

Think I need to order a birth cert or maybe just the death to see if it refers to his extra middle name if Francis



malyon Report 10 Nov 2017 18:58

that could be his death you found

John Herbert Fox
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
19 April 1932

death registration:
June 1995
Norwich, Norfolk, England


CasCas Report 10 Nov 2017 22:22

Thanks Maylon. Yes this was the death I found but as it didn't have his second middle name Francis I wondered if there was anyway of knowing if it was recorded anywhere with the extra name. We,' be decided to order this death cert now to be sure.

Many thanks


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 11 Nov 2017 12:19

The only accurate information on a death certificate is the date & place of death. Everything else, with the exception of maybe a modern medical cause of death, is as good as the informants knowledge.

If Francis isn’t on the index, it won’t be shown on the DC. It’s possible, if you can track down the burial or cremation records, it might have been included then.

It might be an idea to order the DC. You can then trace the informant forward. If he was living at home rather than a care facility, you could search the Electoral Rolls to see if any of the other names are familiar. They’d be held either at the nearest library with a Local Studies section or Archive. They’d probably make a charge. It’ll also give you a better idea where he was buried/cremated.

My father gave the wrong yob when he registered his mothers death. Other people say that their relative celebrated birthdays on the incorrect day. That was only discovered when they found the BC when clearing the home.


SylviaInCanada Report 11 Nov 2017 18:28

People dropped and added names throughout their life ................. I should buy the death certificate to see who is named as the informant, and the address given.

My grandfather was one of those who had us believing the wrong birthday, and his birth certificate was not found until weeks after my uncle had registered the death, so that is also wrong. Both grandfather and grandmother added a couple of years to their ages when they married .............. except for his birth certificate, every single record that I have found so far has had the wrong birth date, including his WW1 service record!

Go to GRO, and ask for the PDF for £6, i comes by email and is no good for using as identification purposes (eg, getting a passport :-D ), but is adequate for family history.


Kay???? Report 11 Nov 2017 20:04

The death certificate should if known give place of birth.but may only give -------ie,

London, etc.


CasCas Report 11 Nov 2017 20:53

Thank-you everyone.

Death certificate ordered. Once I have that hopefully I will be able to put together the 'story' for the lady who I was helping to search for the father she never knew.

As for incorrect dates of birth - ,my own grandfather did this throughout his life also. I've tried it myself, knocking a few years off my age but no one believes me for some reason ha ha!