Genealogy Chat

I can only see one other Martha James born right year, but she is with parents in 1911, and doesn't have a middle initial

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
110 Sherbrooke Road Fulham S W, Fulham, London & Middlesex, England

John James Head Married Male Omnibus Conductor 38 1873 London Kilburn
Martha James Wife Married Female - 35 1876 London Kilburn
Lilian James Daughter - Female - 9 1902 London Queens Park
Dinah Emily James Daughter - Female - 7 1904 London Hammersmith
Martha James Daughter - Female - 4 1907 London Hammersmith
Annie Grace Dorothy James Daughter - Female - 3 1908 London Hammersmith
Primrose Florence James Daughter - Female - 0 1911 London Hammersmith
James Hanton Father In Law Widower Male Carpenter Odd 69 1842 London Paddington

I think it's unlikely but will leave it here just in case

JAMES, MARTHA HANTON Order
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 181

Oh OK. Thank u so much. I have her down as born in 1918 on my tree ?????? I didn't think I could get her certificate without info . But that's great. Yes I will Defo put the info on here. Fingers crossed there's info on there. Thank u all so so much. U have been such a great help. ?????

On the probate record for martha 1991 there is no middle name given, you can find that here:

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

Ohhh it might be possible. Thank u. Will ask my cousin if the places ring a bell to him. Xxxxxxx

Serena just to recap , order the marriage cert from the GRO using the following details, it's easy to do and costs £9.95

Marriages Jun 1926 (>99%)

James Martha M Mountain Marylebone 1a 1314
MOUNTAIN Thomas G James Marylebone 1a 1314

I'm trying to do it. I can't seem to do it. It said to star ordering click start. This takes me to a page that allows me to search only baths and births. I am gonna keep trying. ????????

Ohhh I've done it......Ohhh . I can't wait. Hopefully it will tell me something. Thank u all so much. I will post bk on here when it arrives :-D :-D :-D

This appears to be your Martha mentioned in the service records of her father (same as family in 1911 posted by Nyx above):

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920

Name: Martha James
Birth Date: 16 Jun 1906<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Place: Fulham
Age: 9
Document Year: 1915
Relationship to Soldier: Child
Form Title: Descriptive Report on Enlistment
Number of Images: 17

Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
John James Self (Head)
Martha Hanton Spouse
Dinah Emily James Child
Martha James Child

(the record states that John was separated from his wife Maria. There is a note to say that Maud James of 62 Chippenham Road, London was a the guardian of the children)
------------------------------------------------

Note Martha's DOB matches the 1939 register.

This is Martha's birth:

JAMES, MARTHA (Mother's maiden name: HANTON )
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 181

This is the marriage of Martha's parents (Certificate on Ancestry):

Marriage: 22 Dec 1895
Marriage Place: St Augustine, Paddington, Westminster, England
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: Martha Hanton
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 21
Father: James Hanton (Carpenter)

Spouse: John James (Bus conductor)
Gender: Male
Marriage age: 23
Father: George Alexander James (Labourer)

Witnesses: Charles James & Emily James
--------------------------------------

John and his daughters, Lilian, Dinah, Martha & Primrose, were admitted to the Hammersmith workhouse in 1913.

Martha's mother, Martha, marries again in 1925 to Edward George Mathias

Martha's baptism:

Name: Martha James
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Jun 1906
Baptism Place: Shepherds Bush St Saviour, Hammersmith and Fulham,
Father: John James (Bus conductor)
Mother: Martha James
Abode: 7 Rankin Street
Register Type: Parish Registers

Oh, well done Austin!!

I hope Serena comes back and sees your posts. This is just what she wanted. Sometimes people just give themselves a name that they like.

Kath. x

Brilliant Austin :-) I was going to come back today and see if I could see John on army records and whether he disappeared from the family and you've done it :-)

Only thing I can add which I noticed last night was the possible marriages of Primrose & Dinah

Marriages Sep 1930 (>99%)
Broughton Frederick H James Willesden 3a 887 -
James Primrose F Broughton Willesden 3a 887

Marriages March 1927
James Dinah E Peters Marylebone 1a 941
Peters David C James Marylebone 1a 941

and death of Annie?
Deaths Jun 1911 (>99%)
James Annie G D 3 Fulham 1a 168

1939 register for Dinah

Peters Household (3 People)
57 Percy Road , Willesden M.B., Middlesex, England


Dinah E Peters 12 Feb 1904 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 43 2
David C Peters 01 Feb 1903 Male Gas Fitter Glico Married 43 1
Emma West (Truman) 09 May 1903 Female Daily Domestic Widowed 43 3

And Primrose

Broughton Household (2 People)
27 Windsor Road , Willesden M.B., Middlesex, England


Primrose F Broughton 19 Apr 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 258 2
Frederick H Broughton 17 May 1908 Male Drapers Salesman (Curtain Fitter) Married 258 1

Death of mother Martha's second husband Edward G Mathias in 1931 Paddington, so this may be her on 1939 register

Mathias Household (1 Person)
83 Walterton Road , Paddington, London, England

Martha Mathias 21 Jun 1876 Female Tailoress (At Home) Widowed 104 1

Ohhh my.
Look at all this information. Omg. This is amazing. Can't thank u all enough.
So much here to go through....
this is amazing. Thank u thank u all so so much. U have all helped me a great deal.....
Now to look all through it and understand it to add to my tree. I am so happy and so great full to u all. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D ??????????

Wondering if I can find any children in which they all might have had. Apart from martha as she was my grand mother . Xxxxx

Serena if you go to freebmd.ork.uk you can search births using the surnames, eg for this marriage

Marriages Sep 1930 (>99%)
Broughton Frederick H James Willesden 3a 887 -
James Primrose F Broughton Willesden 3a 887

You enter Broughton and James in the surname search, and there is a possible birth in Willesden 1934

Perfect Nyx .
Yes I will Defo have a look on there. I am ok using that site . Thank u xxx

A good find Austin Q - like Nyx I was coming back to have look for the Army records, but as it was sunny I spent all day decorating whilst I could see what I was doing. So a busy evening and a quick look to see how the thread was going.

There is a previous page to the WW1 Pensions Record that AustinQ posted.

It a Short Service Attestation for John James No. 11526 Warwickshire Regiment.

He attested on 16th April 1915 and his age then was 37 years and 34 days (so he's knocked 5 years off the age declared at marriage and in the 1911 census.

He is a Bus Conductor of 62 Chippenham Road, Harrow Road North and says he is married.

That's all from that page.

-----------------
But Service No. then leads to -
British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Transcription

First name(s) John
Last name James
Age 37
Birth year 1878
Birth town Kilburn
Birth county Middlesex
Birth country England
Service number 11526
Regiment Royal Warwickshire Regiment
Unit / Battalion 1st Training Reserve Battalion
Year 1915
Residence county London
Residence country England
Series WO 364
Series description Wo 364 - First World War Pension Claims

He was sent to France and on 10 August 1915 was admitted at Beauval? with TB of the lung and then to Rouen on 12th before being sent to England 26th August.

Discharged no longer physically fit for War service 6 December 1915 when he was aged 37 and 329 days.
5' 6 ½". 116 lbs. Chest 34" when expanded (a 2" expansion) on discharge

The Statement of case for his discharge says illness first noticed at Arras after 14 days in trenches and then a 15 mile march after which he became completely exhausted. Cause of the disability was said the be exposure and fatigue, aggravated by, but not caused by, active service.

The medical board held at the 2nd London General Hospital does attribute his condition to exposure in the trenches and that the disability is permanent. They put the extent of his inability to earn a livelihood at ¾

A further page within the service documents (application for special enlistment) says this man and his brother (not named) wish to join the same regiment and one will not go without the other. It is said both are likely to make good soldiers.

Involved in British Expeditionary Force to France 1915

States he was married at St John's Church, Kilburn 22. 12 1895 and the image from Ancestry shows Parish Church, in the Parish of St John the Evangelist, Kilburn.
(presume part of Paddington as per AustinQ's post). The certificate shows them both of 67 Granville Road.

Attested 16.4.1915 Private
Posted 20.4.1915
Appointed Lance Corporal 22.6.1915
1st Battalion Expeditionary Force to France 13.7.1915
Home 26.8.1915
Discharged 6.12.1915
Served 235 days