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Birth during crossing of Irish Sea to liverpool

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Debra Report 7 Jan 2019 22:48

Family folklore says one of my ggg grandparents was born en route from Ireland to Liverpool while crossing the Irish Sea.
I have a name and year of birth but am at a complete loss as to whether I can confirm this - has anyone ever come across something similar and might be able to kindly advise me please?
I know nothing of the vessel / name etc


KathleenBell Report 8 Jan 2019 00:14

Have you checked to see if the birth was registered with the GRO in England or in Ireland, or do you mean that you have been unable to find the birth registered in either place?

Kath. x

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 8 Jan 2019 01:01

If the child was born after 1837, a birth certificate just might give the information, but some couples wouldn't be so forward as to volunteer detailed information, unless specifically asked.
A later entry in a family Bible might mention such an event.

A living relative told me of my great grandfather's death while gardening for a fellow villager, but his death certificate records death at his home address, as that's where a doctor saw him and confirmed he had died.

Even certificates don't always tell the full story.


Debra Report 8 Jan 2019 08:49

I’ve looked for many years and can’t find it so am at a dead end here but I will try searching for a later date. However I’ve already checked a five year spa!
Thank you

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 8 Jan 2019 09:15

What's the year of birth ?!

If it's pre 1875 it may not have been registered anyway


KathleenBell Report 8 Jan 2019 10:50

If you'd like to give a name and date we can all have a look and see if we can come up with anything.

Kath. x


malyon Report 8 Jan 2019 12:04


Debra Report 8 Jan 2019 14:25

I have stead on here before
It is Patrick george Madden born 1847-48
I have found 3 birth certificates all within the St Giles / Marylebone region but cannot be sure if this is him.
My great uncle was researching our family before he died and believed Patrick was born at sea whilst crossing from Irleand to Liverpool.
Patrick married Fanny Richards in 1867 in Strand district in London,
Fanny was also born in Liverpool - her parents were Margaret Pile and James Jackson Richards, I believe Margaret’s family came from London originally.


KathleenBell Report 8 Jan 2019 15:48

Do you know Patrick's mother's name or is this what you want the birth certificate for?

Kath. x


Debra Report 8 Jan 2019 18:58

Hi Kath
No I don’t
However I’ve found two possible families in the census
I have found a Catherine and a Bridget Carlon / Carlin who both married a Patrick Maddin / Madden at St Anne’s in Westminster in 1833 and 1836 respectfully
Both appear to have a son called Patrick from 1851 to 1861 in Strand / St Giles / Marylebone districts.
My last known address for Patrick George is 40 Frith Street, St Giles.
Father Patrick is deceased on the certificate. I just cannot confirm which family - if either are his?
This is my brick walll x


greyghost Report 8 Jan 2019 20:15

Previous thread on family - with links to others which have since been deleted

Please don't delete any more threads Debra, just be aware it's better to keep questions about the same person/family on one thread so helpers don't spend time duplicating research etc. Deleting means info. previously found is now lost.

Alter your heading on a previous thread, adding something along the lines of - more info needed, see post on x date x time. It will bring the thread to the top of the pile again.


Debra Report 8 Jan 2019 20:52

Ok will do, thank you


Kay???? Report 10 Jan 2019 21:25

Patrick George

England Roman Catholic Parish Marriages
Soho Square, Middlesex, England

View transcript.

View image.
Patrick George

England Roman Catholic Parish Marriages
Soho Square, Middlesex, England

View transcript.

View image.
Patrick George

England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Strand, London, England

View transcript.

View image.

Access to FMP is needed to view image.

More importance would have been a baptism than birth registration and many RC thought this was all that was needed, and if a RC marriage would have required to be baptised.


Debra Report 10 Jan 2019 22:13

this is the marriage certificate to Fanny Richards I mentioned in my original thread.
Yes I thought the same that Patrick would have needed to be baptised but I’m struggling to find any records of a baptism in a Roman Catholic Church in the St Giles / Strand region

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 Jan 2019 11:54

Have you found him on any earlier census

The family may not have been in the London area when the first came over from Ireland

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 Jan 2019 11:57

A tree on ancestry has this

Patrick George Madden

Spouse. Fanny Mary Richards
Father: John Patrick Madden
Mother: Catherine Carlon
Children: James
Birth: 28 Sep 1848 London, England Bermondsey
Death: 12 Apr 1879 London, England
Residence: 1871 St Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 Jan 2019 12:01

View 1851 England Census

Name: Patk Madden
[Patrick Madden]
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Catherine Madden
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: Rectory
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:


Condition as to marriage:


View image
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: Rectory
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 161
Piece: 1488
Folio: 36
Page Number: 64
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Madden 37 widow occ chairwoman
James Madden 13
Thos Madden 11
Patk Madden 3

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 Jan 2019 12:02

View England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Order a Birth Certificate for Patrick Maddin
Search for Patrick Maddin in the UK Census Collection
Search for Patrick Maddin in the London Times
Add alternate information
Report issue
Name: Patrick Maddin
Registration Year: 1848
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Bermondsey
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 4
Page: 32


Debra Report 11 Jan 2019 15:00

Hi Shirley
The family tree is my great uncles and it was me who gave him this information :-)
As for the other two entries yes I have these two
The issue is there are two potential Patrick maddens living with a father called Patrick and mother ( either Bridget Carlon or Catherine Carlin depending on which family you are looking at)
My issue is I cannot be sure which is the correct family

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 Jan 2019 20:18

He say he was born Marylebone so have you considered this one

GRO Reference: 1848 D Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01 Page 230