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help finding family on census

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Apr 2019 15:33

Unfortunately the lack of recent replies shows that we are just as stuck as you are!

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 24 Apr 2019 15:02

Still stuck on this . Where should I look now . :-S

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 16 Apr 2019 08:51

Can't find Annie and William Jones in1891 :-|

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 15 Apr 2019 15:59

Had a Birth Certificate for Mary Jane Davies 1888 Bridgend Father John Davies Mother Elizabeth Davies Maiden Name Davies :-S
I don't think the marriage certificates would be much more help as I still wouldn't know which one was right.Maesteg is a fair distance from Leominster ,but my mother's grandfather grew up in Bridgend married in DEVON :-0 then lived in Maesteg (. His wife's family originally came from Devon.)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 12 Apr 2019 12:08

This one?

Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
DAVIES Anne Leominster 6a 1087
Jones William Leominster 6a 1087

A long way from Maesteg, and no middle initial for Annie/Anne.

But not necessarily saying it's wrong - needs more investigation.
Is that one of the certs you've sent for?

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 12 Apr 2019 08:52

William Jones and Annie Davies married in December 1888

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 10 Apr 2019 21:38

ordering a couple of certificates . will see if that gets anywhere.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 9 Apr 2019 11:24

The Ancestry trees also say that Norman was aka Bond - just to complicate things even more!

They claim that his father was a travelling showman named Richard Page, and his mother was unknown.
Richard Page apparently was working in Bridgend on 13/10/1905 - proof presumably is info on the marriage cert to Mary Jane, though the trees don't say so.

For Richard Page, whom they claim was born c1860, they show Scottish censuses for 1851 - 71 - but for a William Page born 1848.
So hardly trustworthy.

They (at least one of them) show young Richard Charles as the son of both Mary Jane and Florence!

They say that Norman was born 1881, and show the travel record as proof - but that clearly shows his age as 28 in 1914.

The Norman who married a Mary Jane in 1905 was a coalminer - so unlikely to be the clerk in 1914?

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 9 Apr 2019 11:19

Looks like Norman, a clerk, in 1914:

Norman Page
in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Norman Page
Arrival Age: 28
Birth Date: abt 1886
Port of Departure: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Arrival Date: 14 Oct 1914
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Montevideo; Santos; Rio de Janeiro; Pernambuco; Madeira; Leixoes; Lisbon; Vigo
Ship Name: Araguaya
Shipping Line: Royal Mail Steam Packet Company
Official Number: 120716

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 9 Apr 2019 10:46

The only thing that bothers me about the Norman Page scenario is that if he married Mary Jane in 1905, and they had a son in 1907, why is Norman with Florence in 1911, saying that they'd been married for 5 years ie - since 1906?

Unless his marriage to MJ had broken down at the end of 1906, when she was already pregnant with Richard ?? And perhaps he wasn't actually married to Florence ??

It doesn't help that there are so many Mary Jane Davieses.
Maybe this is a different one.
Maybe Florence's ms was Davies.

The Norman Page marriage is what the Ancestry trees claim - no guarantee that it's correct, without seeing the cert.

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 9 Apr 2019 02:26

it is argyllgran who posted the mmn of Edwards and the wedding between Mary Jane and Norman Page. the census records seem to be right but not sure about the wedding .

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 8 Apr 2019 22:53

Legal adoption didn’t start until c1928, so there were no ‘rules’ as such

As Mary married Williams using the name Davies, it is likely that she conveniently ‘forgot ‘ any previous ceremony. IF. there was one,

You can quite easily look yourself for the death of the alleged first husband

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 8 Apr 2019 22:01

I see you have Mary Janes mother's Maiden name as Edwards so that means my thought is wrong. If Mary Jane did marry twice is it possible to find divorce records . or the death of a first husband
The problem with Tom Jones is the last census is 1911 when he wasn't born ,and may not be on the 1939 census as he died after the cut off date

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 8 Apr 2019 21:36

Hi Erica . Tom Jones was always known by the family as my Grandmother's brother.and Annie E was always called Granny jones. but I can't find Tom . I know he was a bus driver in Caerau in the 1950s . Don't know if he was a blood brother of my grandmother adopted by the jones's as she was ,or if he was a child of Annie and William . One of the family has said he was a lot younger than my grandmother ,which is why i thought the 1916 birth was a possible match . But I got that birth certificate and the parents were Thomas and Margaret Ann .
one possibility that come to mind is that Granny Jones was actually Great granny and Mary Jane was her daughter , I don't know what the adoption rules would have been at the time but if she was Rose's grandmother would there have been a need for it ?

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 8 Apr 2019 11:50

As Rose's name at birth was Davies, and her mother married a Williams - any sibling would have one of those surnames at birth. So, not sure why you are looking for Tom/Thomas JONES

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Apr 2019 11:03

The trees claim that she married in 1905:

Marriages Dec 1905 (>99%)

DAVIES Mary Jane Bridgend 11a 1308
PAGE Norman Bridgend 11a 1308


and the birth of their son:

PAGE, RICHARD CHARLES mms DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in BRIDGEND Volume 11A Page 920

The trees give Norman's middle name as Henry - so presumably someone has looked at the actual marriage cert.

If this marriage is correct, it would explain why Mary and Robert claim to have been "married" for 5 years, but don't actually marry until 1915.

Although -
5 years together would make it 1906, whereas Richard was born 1907.

Following that thought:


Richard Charles Page
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Richard Charles Page
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Cwmdu
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 18 Park St Maesteg Glam
Registration district: Bridgend
Registration District Number: 591
Sub-registration district: Maesteg
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 40
Piece: 32538
Household Members:
Name Age
Norman Page 25 - South America,( Richmond resident)
Florence Page 35 - Co Cork
Richard Charles Page 3 - son

Norman and Florence married 6 years - can't see any marriage - may have been in Ireland..

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Apr 2019 10:48

Dragon -

there are three trees on Ancestry (although one of them refers to another tree which doesn't come up on a search).
Search for Mary Jane Davies with DOB 19/12/1887, as per Mary's post (or 19/02/1887, which is the date given on the trees).

None of them show proof of her DOB, nor of the death in 1936. Much of the content of each of them has been copied from other trees. The only "proof" of anything is the census records, plus birth and marriage index entries from FreeBMD.
The DOB of 19/12/1887 in Mary's post is a mistake, as the trees give her DOB as 19/02/1887, which would at least match the birth in 1st qr 1887.

Hopefully one of the tree owners has looked at the actual birth cert, though none of them have scanned it in to their tree as proof.

Ditto her death.

I wouldn't assume any of the trees are totally trustworthy.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Apr 2019 10:20

The birth I posted was registered in the first qr of 1887 - which doesn't match the DOB which is Mary's post.

Presumably this is the death the tree owner thinks is the right one:

Mary J Williams
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mary J Williams
Death Age: 47
Birth Date: abt 1889
Registration Date: Dec 1936
Registration district: Bridgend
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 705

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 6 Apr 2019 09:12

Mary : Where did you find the ancestry trees . I have a tree there . I just signed up again for a month but can only find one tree with only two entries on it

friendlywelshdragon

friendlywelshdragon Report 6 Apr 2019 09:05

Not sure about that date for Mary Jane's death . I remember my late father saying he took my mother to meet her when they were courting . This would have been the late 1940's . Also she may have had a second marriage .