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Missing birth information

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 9 Apr 2019 13:05

Name: Margaret Ann Veronica Cecilia Fimpel
Death Date: 9 Nov 1945
Death Place: London, England
Probate Date: 5 Jul 1946
Probate Registry: London, England
Probate to JOHN

Name: Eberhart Rudolph Herrmann Fimpel
Death Date: 31 Jan 1945
Death Place: London, England
Probate Date: 30 Jul 1945
Probate Registry: Llandudno
Probate to widow

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 9 Apr 2019 13:48

Herbert Kipin married Ethel Tong - the other 4 female names are your grandmother, in various guises.

Such variations usually come about because the father's surname differs from that of the bride (or groom)

In the bride's case, this can be because she has been married before - or, for both, because they were illegitimate and his or her mother subsequently married a man whose details are given for 'father'

Rose

Rose Report 9 Apr 2019 14:20

My very sincere thanks to you all for your help. I have now ordered a copy of the marriage certificate from the GRO. I eventuall found where I could order a copy. I am hoping, that this certificate will at last help solve the mystery of the differing surnames and help me (and my brothers) find out the truth about our rather revolutionary grandmother. It will take a while for the post to reach me (dispatch date about 15. April), but once I get it I will inform you of the outcomings.
PS Erika I come to the same conclusion as you - either illegitemacy or a previous marriage could be causing the confusion. We shall see.

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 9 Apr 2019 14:56

Glad you able to order the certificate. Hopefully it will provide some answers for you.

A possible for Margaret in 1881:

Name: Margaret A. Cressey
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relationship to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sculcoates
County/Island: Yorkshire
Street address: 2 Richmond Terrace
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Sculcoates
Sub registration district: West Sculcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 4763 Folio: 76 Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
John Toole 43 Gas house stoker, Limerick, Ireland
Ann Toole 42 Wife, Yorkshire, Hull
Margaret A. Cressey 5 Grandaughter, Scholar Yorkshire, Hull
Wm. Mc Grath 39 Boarder
Wm. Hy. Mc Grath 13 Boarder

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 9 Apr 2019 15:03

Looks good..................

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 9 Apr 2019 15:03

1891:

Name: Margaret Cressey
Gender: Female
Age: 15
Relationship: Cousin
Birth Year: 1876
Birth Place: Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Residence Place: Brixton, Lambeth, London, England
Sub registration district: Brixton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 49
Neighbors:
Piece: 416
Folio: 115
Household Members:
Name Age
Geo Foster 40 Licolnshire
Mary Foster 44 Wife York
Margaret Cressey 15 Cousin, York
Geo Morphew 16 Nephew, Lincolnshire

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 9 Apr 2019 15:10

Name: Margaret Cressey
Gender: Female
Age: 15
Relationship: Cousin
Birth Year: 1876
Birth Place: Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Residence Place: Brixton, Lambeth, London, England
Sub registration district: Brixton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 49
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 416
Folio: 115
Household Members:
Name Age
Geo Foster 40
Mary Foster 44
Margaret Cressey 15
Geo Morphew 16

Rambling

Rambling Report 9 Apr 2019 15:11

EDIT NOT these two who died same year.


CRESSEY, KATE GARDENER
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 495
CRESSEY, MARGARET GARDENER
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 495

Rose

Rose Report 9 Apr 2019 17:04

It's me again: Erika H and Austin Q I had already found the refernces you have quoted, The one from 1881 fits from the dates but the name of Toole as her Grandfather rather confuses the picture. The census record from 1891 would give me the connection to the name Foster and her connection to bicycles - Geo Fpster's profession is given as "Bicycle Manufacturer" and as I reported earlier my grandmother was a record-breaking cyclist in her day. I also found in the 1901 census George Foster - Bicycle Manufacturer but his date of birth was given as 1866 not 1851 and Maggie's age was given as 30 and she was listed as "sister-in-law", there is no mention of George's wife. I wonder whether George and Maggie lied about, not only their ages, but also their relationship. Did Maggie just step-in as "wife" when George's wife left him, or possibly died? It seems rather unlikely that there were two George Fosters -bicycle manufacturers- living in close proximity in London and both having connections to a certain Maggie Cressy (Cressey). I think it is not difficult to see why I was getting frustrated. I live in hope that all will be revealed in the near future. The wait will be almost intolerable.

Mary

Mary Report 9 Apr 2019 17:37

1901 says George is married and Maggie single.
I can't trace who the daughter of was John and Ann Toole married Mr Cressey.

Maryb

Rambling

Rambling Report 9 Apr 2019 18:45

Well spotted Erika! FMP gives this transcription
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Commerce Place, Cold Harbour Lane, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England


George H Hoster Head Married Male 40 1851 Biegele Manufactor Lincolnshire, England
Mary Hoster Wife Married Female 44 1847 - Yorkshire, England
Margaret Grossey Cousin Single Female 15 1876 Shop Woman Yorkshire, England
George Morphett Nephew Single Male 16 1875 Leasney Trade Lincolnshire, England

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 9 Apr 2019 19:02

:-D

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 10 Apr 2019 10:41

Why was there a report in a newspaper local to a small area of the south coast of Kent?

If you want me to investigate this further, I can go into Folkestone library, if you wish.

Rose

Rose Report 10 Apr 2019 12:03

Dear Gwyn, Thanks so much for your offer to help, but there is a very logical explanation. The article appeared in the Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate and Cheriton Herold in the early 1930s (I found it myself quite a while ago). It is a report about my grandfather taking over the management of the Pleasure Garden Theatre in Folkestone. I knew from my father that he had done so. I must now play the waiting game until the marriage certificate turns up. Once again many thanks.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 10 Apr 2019 12:05

Looking at other newspaper reports, Eberhart (apparently also known as Edward) was manager of the Pleasure Gardens Theatre from 1932 until ??.
There are a number of reports in the Sandgate & Cheriton Herald - here are just a few.
I don't see any reports after 1834 - but no report of the Fimpels leaving Folkestone. They seem to have been well liked and involved in the community, according to various reports.

Maggie was a world record cyclist in 1902! Doubtless connected to the fact that George Foster was a bicycle manufacturer.



APPOINTMENT OF LONDON MAN

... APPOINTMENT OF LONDON MAN Mr. E. Fimpel, ot Herne Hill, London, lias been appointed Manager the Pleasure Gardens Theatre, Folkestone, and he will take over his duties in the course of the next week or so. Mr. Finipei is a man of great capability ami ...
Published: Saturday 02 April 1932



r«lllk orth,«c Tioiwiim
... pleasure to me to meet Mr. Fimpel, the new manager of the theatre, and Mrs. Fimpel on Wednesday evening. I noticed many little improvements about the place which, 1 sure, patrons will appreciate. “Business is very good,” Mr. Fimpel told me. “I have been ...
Published: Saturday 30 April 1932



TO TAKE OVER ON MONDAY
... TO TAKE OVER ON MONDAY Mr. Edward Fimpel, the newly appointed Manager the Folkestone Pleasure Gardens Theatre, will take over his duties at the Theatre on Monday next. The new manager, who comes from Herne Hill, London, has had vast experience in the ...
Published: Saturday 09 April 1932



Continued from preceding column
... Continued from preceding column. Although it has no connection with Mrs, Fimpel’s theatrical work, it i 8 nevertheless interesting to note that in 1902 she broke the world’s record for cycling when she cycled 30 miles 168 yards in one hour. She has gold ...
Published: Saturday 09 April 1932


ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 10 Apr 2019 12:16

Report of Maggie's cycling triumph -




... Miss M. Foster cycled mile, paced, with a fly art Heme Kill on Friday 2min. 12see, bea'ing Miss Andrews' previous best of 17 3-se«ss.

Published: Saturday 20 September 1902
Newspaper: Coventry Evening Telegraph
County: Warwickshire, England

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 10 Apr 2019 12:34

Perhaps she met Eberhart at something like this ??


THE MUSIC HALL SPORTS AT HERNE HILL: The Humorous Side of Athletics

... THE MUSIC HALL SPORTS AT HERNE HILL The Humorous Side of Athletics The annual sports in aid of the Music Hall Benevolent Fund always attract a large gate,' greatly to the benefit of a most deserving institution. This year the artistes and their friends ...
Published: Wednesday 13 July 1904
Newspaper: The Bystander
County: London, England

Rose

Rose Report 10 Apr 2019 15:16

Dear ArgyllGran, You too have been busy on my behalf, my thanks. I found most of the newspaper reports myself. I think that Eberhart and Maggie returned to London after their stay in Folkestone. Work in the theatre world was not for ever and contracts were usually for a limited period of time. I know that my grandparents had to survive periods of unemployment. Maggie met Eberhart at the Gaiety Theatre in London where they were both employed. Another cycling record that Maggie held was for London to Brighton and back. We don't know where George Foster comes into the picture.

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 11 Apr 2019 16:37

Hi Rose, doesn't help at the moment, (and you may already have it), but worth noting that George was living at Commerce Place, Cold Harbour lane in 1891- there are several ads placed in 1886 that may be connected to George:-

South London Chronicle - Saturday 26 June 1886

FOSTER & COLLEY
Bicycle and Tricycle Makers
4 Commerce Place, Loughborough Junction
Bicycles, Tricycles and Perambulators Bought, Sold, Exchanged, Repaired and On Hire. Lamps, Bells &c

Rose

Rose Report 11 Apr 2019 18:26

Goodness Austin, I had, in fact found the census entry for 1891, noting that George is listed as bicycle maker and that a Maggie Cressey dob1876 is listed as "cousin" and George has a wife. Maggie's dob is the one we know. Census 1901 lists George - bicycle manufacturer still in Coldharbour Lane with a different dob, no longer 1851 but 1866, there is no mention of a wife, but Maggie Cressey is still there, but now 30 years old and not 25 as would be expected taking the 1891 census entry. She Is now listed as sister in law!! The mind boggles and I have my suspicions. I am sure that you have found the right shop. I would certainly never have found it, I would not know where to look. Many thanks. I continue to delve and dig and hope to find the truth in the end. I and my brothers are all kicking ourselves that we did not ask more about our grandparents when our parents were alive. But that's kids for you.