Genealogy Chat

Thank you all very much, this is what I already know, or think I know, Robert Leo Collier born 1882 at Fulham, London. Robert's parents are not recorded any where that I can discover, apart from his mother's maiden name was Holt. It is possible that Robert attended a Catholic boarding school, Park House, Cresswell Park,Charlton. There is a Robert Collier, born circa 1883 at Fulham, recorded on the 1891 census showing him as a scholar aged 8. This census was the first taken since he was born and I have not found a closer match. This is not proven and it may be that his parents failed to complete the census.
I have found a record of Robert signing up to join the British Army on the 9th of March 1900 where he claims to be 18 years old, however as he was born in the 4th Quarter of 1882 he would have only been 17 years old in March 1900, but it would not be uncommon for a lad to lie about his age, as many did. He signed for a term of 12 years, the first seven being as active and the following 5 as a reserve. There is also a record for a R. L. Collier for fighting in the Anglo - Boer War, which took place from 1899 until 1902. He is recorded with the rank of Corporal. His active service would have finished in 1907, which is when he married at Paddington, London to Mabel Eliza Pearson born circa 1884 at Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire. According to the 1911 census they were living at 37, Warwick Avenue, Maida Vale, London with their child, Ena Constance Collier, born 1908 at Paddington. Robert is recorded as a Hospital Porter. I know that they went on to have 4 more daughters, the last of them being my daughter's Grandmother.

At 37 Woodchester St , as in army record:

Sarah Collier
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Sarah Collier
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Fulham, London, England
Civil Parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: London
Country: England
:Registration district: Paddington
Sub-registration district: St Mary, Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Neighbors:
Piece: 2
Folio: 140
Page Number: 73
Household schedule number: 530
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Collier 54 - widow
Ellen Collier 14 - daughter, dressmaker

And then in 1911, after her mother's death, Ellen is with the Holt relatives as already posted.

1911 Census For England & Wales
37 Warwick Avenue Paddington W, Paddington, London & Middlesex, England

Robert Collier Head Married Male 28 1883 Hospital Porter Middlesex Fulham
Mabel Collier Wife Married Female 27 1884 - Bedford Leighton Buzzard
Eva Collier Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Middlesex Paddington

COLLIER, ENA CONSTANCE PEARSON
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in PADDINGTON Volume 01A Page 61

Oh, I see, alviegal - the service record shows his brother as one of the NOK - I thought you meant his father was Arthur Philip.

Interesting - there's no mention of a middle name for Sarah in any census, nor at birth or marriage.


???

Sarah A Collier
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah A Collier
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Registration Year: 1910
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Paddington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 49

Whose service records, alviegal? I'm confused.


Apparent brother of Robert Leo (also on the 1881 census already posted):

Arthur Phillip Collier
in the Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915
Name: Arthur Phillip Collier
Baptism Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 16 Dec 1879
Baptism Date: 21 Dec 1879
Baptism Place: St Patrick's, Cork city, Cork, Ireland
Residence Place: 103 Regt Barracks
Parish Variants: St. Patrick's, Cork
Diocese: Cork and Ross
Father: Thomas Collier
Mother: Sarah Holt



Arthur Phillip Collier
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Arthur Phillip Collier
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1879
Enlistment Age: 36
Marriage Date: 23 Jun 1910
Marriage Place: Register Office Colchester
Document Year: 1915
Residence Place: 5 Arden Street Gillingham, Kent
Regimental Number: 350
Other Regimental Numbers: 50814, 3610814
Regiment Name: Army Gym Staff
Number of Images: 16
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Arthur Phillip Collier Self (Head)
Violet Mary Thompson Spouse
Violet Mary Collier Child - 1912, Berwick on Tweed
Constance Louisa Collier Child - 1915, Manchester


Violet Mary Thompson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Violet Mary Thompson
Registration Year: 1910
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Colchester
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 1176
Records on Page:
Name
Arthur Philip Collier
Violet Mary Thompson

His service records show his NOK as mother, Sarah Alice Collier 37 Woodchester S Harron? Rd, London and B** Arthur Philip Collier 3 Bn Northampton Reg.

EDIT Sorry AG, Robert Leo Collier's service records.

Robert Leo
Last name Collier
Birth year 1882
Birth parish Fulham
Birth town London
Birth county Middlesex
Birth country England
Service number 5960
Regiment Devonshire Regiment
Year 1900
Attestation date 09 Mar 1900
Attestation age years 18
Attestation service number 5960

Thomas Collier born 28/1/1852 baptised 3/2/1851 in Poona Bombay India
parents Darby and Ann Collier

Darby Collier died in Poona 30/4/1862 born 1828.

He was in the army
6th Regiment serving in the Indian Mutiny 1857-8.

Baptism in Ireland 1845 Anne Collier parents Darby Collier and Anne Curtis.

Info off Ancestry

Maryb

Sarah Holt who married Thomas Collier was born c1847 in Chelsea.

Robert Holt (per 1881 and 1891 censuses), uncle of Ellen Maude Mary, was born in Chelsea c1849.

Looks like Sarah is Robert's sister.

Robert Holst
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Robert Holst
[Robert Holt]
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elizabeth Holst
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 160
Piece: 38
Folio: 75
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Holst 41 - governess, Bucks
Elizabeth Holst 17 - housemaid
Sarah Holst 14
Robert Holst 12


HOLT, ROBERT mms TONSS
GRO Reference: 1848 S Quarter in ST. LUKE CHELSEA Volume 03 Page 66


HOLT, SARAH mms TRUSS
GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in ST LUKE CHELSEA Volume 03 Page 58



Sarah Holt
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Sarah Holt
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Elizabeth Holt
Gender: Female
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North West
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 90
Piece: 1473
Folio: 337
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Holt 31 - Chesham, Bucks; traveller's wife
John Holt 10 - son, Pimlico
Henry Holt 9 - son, Westminster, Middlesex
Sarah Holt 4
Robert Holt 2


The son John in 1841, with Truss relatives:

John Holt
in the 1841 England Census
Name: John Holt
Age: 7 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: Belgrave
Neighbors:
Piece: 732
Book: 16
Folio: 41
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Trup 36 - card maker, not born in county
Martha Trup 30 - not born in county
Elizabeth Trup 19 - not born in county
John Holt 7 Mo
James White 30 - servant
Esther White 34 - servant


HOLT, JOHN mms TRUSS
GRO Reference: 1840 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01 Page 12

Elizabeth Holt
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Holt
Gender: Female
Age: 39
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1852
Spouse: Robert Holt
Child: Elizabeth M Holt
Francis Holt
Matilda Holt
Sarah Holt
Florence Holt
Louisa Holt
Agnes Holt
Birth Place: Chelsea, London, England
Civil Parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
Residence Place: London, Paddington, London, England
Registration district: Paddington
Sub registration district: St Mary Paddington
ED, Institution or Vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 2
Folio: 96
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Holt 42
Elizabeth Holt 39
Elizabeth M Holt 17
Francis Holt 16
Matilda Holt 11
Sarah Holt 9
Florence Holt 8
Louisa Holt 5
Agnes Holt 7
Elizabeth Holt 72


??

Elizabeth Stephens
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Elizabeth Stephens
Registration Year: 1872
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Chelsea
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 502
Records on Page:
Name
Robert Holt
Elizabeth Stephens

Elizabeth Halt
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Halt
[Elizabeth Holt]
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Menlep, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Paddington
Sub-registration district: St Mary, Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Neighbors:
Piece: 3
Page Number: 59
Household schedule number: 452
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Halt 50
Elizabeth Halt 29 - Chelsea
Francis Holt 26 - Chelsea
Thomas Holt 22
Melida Holt 21
Sarah Holt 19
Florence Holt 18
Agnes Holt 19
Phillip Holt 8
Mynes Roberts 29 - visitor, Somerset.

All Elizabeth's children are single, except Francis, the son.
All the children born in Paddington, except Elizabeth and Francis, both born in Chelsea.

Looks like Ellen Maude Mary in 1911:

Ellen Collier
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ellen Collier
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Niece
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Paddington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 142 Clarendon Street, Westbourne Sq, Paddington
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Dress Making
Registration district: Paddington
Registration District Number: 1
Sub-registration district: Paddington Central
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Piece: 54
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Holt 61 - head, Somerset, grocer, tea & provisions
Catherine Dale 24 - boarder [ Henry George Dale ]
Annie Nally 47 - boarder
Annie Davies 40 - boarder
Edith Rogers 42 - visitor
Ellen Collier 24
Sarah Holt 29 - daughter, single, Paddington
Florence Holt 28 - daughter, single, Paddington
Agnes Holt 21 - daughter, single, Paddington
Philip Holt 18 - son, single, Paddington

He'd put on weight by the following year:

Robert Leo Collier
in the New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
Name: Robert Leo Collier
Birth Year: abt 1883
Age: 38
Event Place: Kogarah, New South Wales, Australia
Event Type: Desertion
Publication Date: 8 Jun 1921
Page #: 335


A warrant has been issued by the Kogarah Bench for the arrest of Robert Leo Collier, charged with wife desertion. He is 38 years of age, 5 feet 4 or 5 inches high; medium to stout build, dark complexion and hair; small dark moustache, or may be clean shaved; generally dressed in a grey suit and a black soft-felt hat; a returned soldier. Complainant: Mabel Collier, Crawford Road, Kogarah.


Fascinating - but no help with his parents.

Robert Leo Collier
in the New South Wales, Australia, Police Gazettes, 1854-1930
Name: Robert Leo Collier
Birth Year: abt 1882
Age: 38
Event Place: Kogarah, New South Wales, Australia
Event Type: Desertion
Publication Date: 29 Sep 1920
Page #: 549

A warrant has been issued by the Kogarah Bench for the arrest of Robert Leo Collier charged with wife desertion. He is 38 years of age, 5 feet 6 or 7 inches high, thin build, dark complexion and hair, good teeth, dark moustache, may now be clean shaved; dressed in a dark grey tweed suit, black hard hat and black lace-up boots; was recently employed by the Railway Department as a storeman at Eveleigh; an Englishman; a returned soldier; and addicted to drink.

I wonder if the RC school where Robert Leo was in 1891 was the orphanage/school connected to this church?
The church is in Cresswell Park.

http://www.stmarysblackheath.org.uk/our-church/

Deaths Jun 1889 (>99%)
Collier Thomas 37 Fulham 1a 188

COLLIER, ELIZABETH MARY ANN HOLT
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in NEWPORT Volume 11A Page 200

Marriages Dec 1871 (>99%)
Collier Thomas Chelsea 1a 475
Holt Sarah Chelsea 1a 475

Name:
Thomas Joseph Holt Collier
Event Type:
Birth
Event Date:
4 Jan 1878
Event Place:
Ireland
Event Place (Original):
Barrack, Westmeath, Ireland



Name:
Thomas Collier
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1881
Event Place: Fulham, London,Middlesex, England
Registration District: Fulham
Residence Note: St Oswalds Road
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Marital Status (Original):
MarriedOccupation:
Travelling Ticket Examiner (Railway)
Relationship to Head of Household:
Head
Birth Year (Estimated):
1852
Birthplace:
Poona, East Indies
Page Number:
14
Registration Number:
RG11
Piece/Folio:
72/10
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Collier Head Male 29 Poona, East Indies
Sarah Collier Wife Female 34 Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Emily M A Collier Daughter Female 7 Newport, Essex, Wales
Thomas J H Collier Son Male 3 Mullinger, Ireland
Arthur P M Collier Son Male 1 Cork, Ireland
Gender:
Male
Father's Name:
Thomas Collier
Mother's Name:
Sarah Holt Collier

Perhaps you need to buy Robert's birth cert to see who his father was.

Sarah Collier nee Holt named as mother of Thomas bn Mullingar

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02975/2090049.pdf

from https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/