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Matching the right marriage pair

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Unknown Report 11 Jul 2020 12:59

Hi can anyone help me please
My great grandmother Eliza Mahoney married in 1878, there are 2 possible husbands.
Mr Fox or Mr Cushell
How do I choose who is the correct one ???
Both married in the same district.
A marriage certificate is £11.00 :-(
I’m not buying 2 they are not refundable :-D


Maddie Report 11 Jul 2020 13:14

she must have had children, what are their surnames please


Maddie Report 11 Jul 2020 13:34

Name: Eliza Mahoney
Registration Year: 1878
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: West Derby
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 732
Records on Page:
Richard Cashell
Peter Fox
Mary Ann Garvey
Eliza Mahoney

so not mr fox

GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 89

1, Northampton Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Peter Fox Head Married Male 27 1854 Grocer & Provision Dealer Ireland
Mary Ann Fox Wife Married Female 23 1858 - Ireland
Ellen Fox Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Fox Son Single Male 0 1881 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mickell Fox Brother Single Male 25 1856 Grocer Assistant Tyrone, Ireland
Patrick Fox Brother Single Male 23 1858 Grocer Assistant Tyrone, Ireland
James Gorman Boarder Single Male 17 1864 Grocer Assistant Tyrone, Ireland
Mickell Gorman Boarder Single Male 14 1867 Apprentice Tyrone, Ireland


greyghost Report 11 Jul 2020 14:15

If you're searching in Lancashire, there are a couple of free to use very helpful sites - - which gives this result

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MAHONEY Eliza CASHELL Richard 1878 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/66/120

possibly a Catholic wedding as shows either Reg. Office or Registrar attended rather than naming a Church


No results here but this is for Parish records

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 11 Jul 2020 14:42

Do you know for sure that it was definitely your ancestor who married either of the men?


ErikaH Report 11 Jul 2020 14:44

If she was your great grandmother, you must know which of her children is your direct line, so can't see how you got back to Eliza without knowing who she married, unless your ancestor was illegitimate

How did you decide that the 1878 marriage had any connection to you?

In any case, if you order the copy marriage cert, you only need to submit ONE name


Maddie Report 11 Jul 2020 15:51

cant find an eliza with richard in census

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 Jul 2020 20:26

If she is your grt grandmother you must know which child you are descended from

Rather than try to work forward it would be better to work backwards


KathleenBell Report 12 Jul 2020 09:57

You don't have to order two certificates. Just order it using just Eliza's name with the reference for district, volume and page numbers and you will get the right one.

However, as has already been said, you should be working backwards from yourself.

Kath. x


mgnv Report 14 Jul 2020 06:29

Ome can buy BMD certs from the local office that now holds the original rego's, or from the GRO who hold copies made at the time of rego.
The GRO will now put an image of their copy on the cert, but most local offices lack this capability, so they will make a copy for you.
Marrs are a bit difft - pre-1898, only the C of E (or Wales), jews, quakers, and registras were approved to kee[ official marr rego's.
So a non-conformist marr would need a registrar to attend with an official marr rego for the couple to sign to complete the ceremony, and the local registrar has the originals, as well as originals of rego office marrs.
The other officiants sent a copy to the local registrar who kept a copy of the church rego. A copy also went to the GRO. Adter the origanal was checked against the local registrar's copy, it would be deposited in some archive - usually the county records office.
The approved keeper of a church rego can also issue a marr cert for an rego in their possession - so really just their current rego, or the previous one too, if they've just started a fresh rego.
Post-1898, non-conformists could becomespproved to keep official marr trgo's (although the RCs chose not to apply until 1970-80-ish).

Why this is useful is that some local registrars have their local indexes on-line, see:
in particular:

Here's the relevant GRO page from FreeBMD

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
CASHELL Richard W. Derby 8b 732
FOX Peter W. Derby 8b 732
GARVEY Mary Ann W. Derby 8b 732
Mahoney Eliza W. Derby 8b 732

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
LANGTON Margaret West Derby 8b 731
MARMION Michael W. Derby 8b 731
McKEOWN Bridget W. Derby 8b 731
Rolston William W Derby 8b 731

and here are the two local look-ups

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ROLSTON William LANGTON Margaret 1878 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/66/119
MAHONEY Eliza CASHELL Richard 1878 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/66/120
FOX Peter GARVEY Mary A 1878 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/66/121
YOUNG William SCOTT Jane 1878 Everton, St. Ambrose Liverpool 2022WD/1/149

The local ref usually has 3 elements
a) the church identifier (or subdistrict for Bs & Ds)
so 2022WD is Everton, St. Ambrose
and REG_WD is the West Derby registrar's rego's
b) this is the 66th rego in that series
C) this is the 120th entry or page
Local indexes nearly always use ebtry for narrs 0 so we know who wed whom
Some of N Wales uses page #, but even then, we can sometimes resolve who wed whom.
Local pages always had 2 marrs per page (and 5 Bs/Ds). Most rego's had 500 entries, but the marr rego's (espec registrar's rego's taken to non-conformist marrs) had fewer.
Uf the previous quarter ended in the middle of a page, then the bext quarter's copy would start at the top of the first page for that place.
Thus marrs were misaligned half the time like here where the local page 6o contains entries 119/12o (combined) which would have resolved who wed whom
For marr rego's, it's often easy to spot a registrar's rego's - CofE often begin with C, jews with J or S, quakers with F or Q.
The subdistruct codes on Bs & Ds are usually easy to guess 0 here's 1881 codes for West Derby:
Hint Click on 'W. Derby' link in FreeBMD hit, then the more info 'here' link to see:

Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.10.1934 (to become part of Liverpool North, Bootle, and Crosby registration districts).
Sub-districts : Bootle, Crosby, Everton, Everton North, Everton North West, Everton, Everton South East, Fazakerley, Kirkdale, Litherland, North Everton, South Everton, Toxteth Park, Walton, Wavertree, West Derby, West Derby Eastern, West Derby Western.
GRO volumes : XX (1837-51), 8b (1852-1934).
Registers currently held at : Liverpool, Sefton and Knowsley.

Note that all the subdistricts that evere were in W Derby are listed, not just the 1881 subset,

Alsosome parts of historic lans are now in Chedhire/Cumbria. covers historic Lancs
is useful, in particular, the partly indexed collection:

England, Manchester, Parish Registers, 1603-1910

Look up in ondex first - if it's a missing marr, check LancsBMD for church, year and entry #, then:
"Browse through 248,202 images"

NB LancsBMD indexes with year of birth, and a Dec birth is often rego'ed in the first quarter of the following year.