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Changing Birth Counties

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Tawny Report 25 Aug 2020 21:24

One of my ancestors changes his birth place from Mary Tavy, Devonshire on the 1891 census to Millom, Cumberland on the 1901 census. His wife was born in Whitehaven, Cumberland and states this on all the census records she appears on and his daughter who first appears on the 1901 census also says place of birth is Millom, Cumberland. Would there be a benefit to him changing his birth county to the one he was living in at the time of the census?

He was living as a lodger in 1901 so I know it is also possible that the person filling out the census may not have had the right information.


ArgyllGran Report 25 Aug 2020 22:05

For our reference - is this the couple??

John Gorman
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John Gorman
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1867
Spouse: Agnes Gorman
Birth Place: Mary Tavy, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Millom
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
Residence Place: Millom, Millom, Cumberland, England
Registration district: Bootle
Sub registration district: Bootle
ED, Institution or Vessel: 6
Piece: 4321
Folio: 125
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gorman 24
Agnes Gorman 23 - Whitehaven

They're at the same address as another family of Gormans (part of the same family, I assume) , some of whom are born in Mary Tavy and others in Millom.
Phillip and Ellen, with sons Jabez and Frederick, all born in Mary Tavy, and other children Phillip, Paul, Myra and Mary all born in Millom.

John Gorman
in the 1901 England Census
Name: John Gorman
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Millom, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Wallsend
Ecclesiastical parish: Wallsend St Luke
Town: Wallsend
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Tynemouth
Sub-registration district: Wallsend
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 4796
Folio: 43
Page Number: 32
Household schedule number: 158
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Dinsdale 32
Agnes Dinsdale 28
Richard Dinsdale 8
Jane Dinsdale 7
Mary Dinsdale 5
Margaret Dinsdale 3
Alice Dinsdale 1
John Gorman 33
Agnes Gorman 33
Eleanor Gorman 9

Perhaps the enumerator just got mixed up.
Which is the correct place of birth?
If Mary Tavy is the correct one, maybe, as you suggest, the person giving the information knew he'd previously lived in Millom, and assumed he'd been born there.

I can't see that there would be any advantage to changing his POB.
He doesn't seem to have been unemployed and looking for any Poor Law help or similar.


Tawny Report 25 Aug 2020 22:13

Thank you. I did wonder if the person just gave the wrong information. That is the right family above in 1891 and 1901. I suspect Philip and Ellen are Johns’ parents but will need the very to confirm. A John Gorman of the right age and place of birth does appear on two previous census with them though.


ArgyllGran Report 25 Aug 2020 22:28

GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in BOOTLE Volume 10B Page 692

Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)
Connelly Agnes Bootle 10b 969
Gorman John Bootle 10b 969

Unfortunately there's no marriage banns record online to show his father's name.
But it might be worth getting the marriage cert.

Though I agree that Phillip is very likely to be his father.


Tawny Report 25 Aug 2020 22:36

Thank you for the marriage and their daughter’s birth. Your right the marriage cert might be better as it would also confirm Agnes’ father who if I’m right is Andrew Connelly from Dublin. Agnes Gorman was one of the witnesses who signed James Connelly’s marriage certificate in 1898. James and Agnes would be brother and sister.


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 13:48

GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 10B Page 537

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Plumlands Lane, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Andrew Connelly Head - Male 26 1845 - Ireland
Ellen Connelly Wife - Female 26 1845 - Cumberland, England
Agnes Connelly Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Cumberland, England
James Connelly Son - Male 0 1871 - Cumberland, England
Jane Flood Visitor - Female 28 1843 - Cumberland, England

Marriages Jun 1867 (>99%)
CONNELLY Andrew Whitehaven 10b 787
GREENLAW Ellenor Wasdale Whitehaven 10b 787

GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 10B Page 579


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 13:54

GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 173

GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 155

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
17, Bardy Lane, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
William Quiggin Greenlow Head Married Male 35 1816 Tide Waiter (Customs) Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Agnes Greenlow Wife Married Female 40 1811 - Cumberland, England
Margaret Greenlow Daughter - Female 7 1844 - Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
William Greenlow Son - Male 9 1842 Scholar Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Eleanor Wasder Greenlow Daughter - Female 6 1845 Scholar Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Rebecca Lamb Servant Unmarried Female 19 1832 House Servant Cumberland, England


GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 159


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 13:58

Name: Agnes Wasdale
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1805
Baptism Date: 15 Feb 1805
Baptism Place: Saint John Beckermet,Cumberland,England
Father: John Wasdale
Mother: Eleanor


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 14:05

Baptised after marriage

Name: Ellen Connelly
[Ellen Greenlow]
Baptism Age: 22
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 3 Jul 1845
Baptism Date: 10 Jul 1867
Baptism Place: St Andrew's, Dublin city, Dublin, Ireland
Residence Place: 11 Moss St
Parish Variants: St. Andrew's, Westland Row, Westland Row
Diocese: Dublin
Father: William Greenlow
Mother: Agnes Westdale


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 14:09


Name: Andrew Connelly
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: 1845
Relation: Apprentice
Gender: Male
Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Whitehaven Harbour
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street address:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Anglesey
Sub-registration district: Holyhead
ED, institution, or vessel: Nerrid


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 14:18

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Quay Street, St Bees, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England

William Greenlaw Male 25 1816 Cumberland, England
Agnes Greenlaw Female 25 1816 Cumberland, England
Alexander Greenlaw Male 3 1838 Cumberland, England
Jane Greenlaw Female 1 1840 Cumberland, England
Dorothy Harrison Female 25 1816 Cumberland, England

First name(s) Alexander Henry
Last name Greenlaw
Gender Male
Baptism year 1837
Baptism date 31 Dec 1837
Place Whitehaven
County Cumberland
Country England
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Greenlaw
Mother's first name(s) Agness

I wonder.......................................

First name(s) AGNES
Last name WASDALE
Birth year 1808
Marriage year 1829
Marriage date 28 Dec 1829
Parish St Philip, Liverpool
Spouse's first name John Oswald
Spouse's last name Cannon
Bride's age 21
Bride's residence Liverpool
Bride's marital status Spinster
Groom's age 21
Groom's residence Liverpool
Groom's occupation Mariner
Groom's marital status Batchelor

Name: Sarah Oswald Cannon
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 24 May 1835
Baptism Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England
Father: John Oswald Cannon
Mother: Agnes

Deaths Sep 1837 (>99%)
CANNON Sarah Oswald Whitehaven 25 97

Name: Thomas Coulthard Cannon*****
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 14 Oct 1832
Baptism Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England
Father: John Oswald Cannon
Mother: Agnes

Name: John Oswald Cannon
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 27 Apr 1856
Baptism Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England
Father: Thomas Coulthard Cannon****
Mother: Ann

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
St Bee Village, St Bee, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
John Wasdale Male 65 1776 Cumberland, England
Eleanor Wasdale Female 65 1776 Cumberland, England
Joseph Bewley Male 30 1811 Cumberland, England
Eleanor Bewley Female 30 1811 Cumberland, England
Thomas Cannon Male 8 1833 Cumberland, England


ErikaH Report 26 Aug 2020 14:49

Name: Margaret Quiggin Greenlaw
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 30 Jun 1875
Marriage Place: Millom, Cumberland, England
Father: William Greenlaw
Spouse: John Polglase

Name: Margaret Quiggin Polglase
Death Date: 22 Oct 1919
Death Place: Cumberland, England
Probate Date: 25 Oct 1951
Probate Registry: Carlisle


Tawny Report 26 Aug 2020 16:53

Thank you for all the records Erika. I’ll have loads to look at now.


mgnv Report 4 Sep 2020 18:29
Cumbria Marriage indexes for the years: 1875
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GREENLAW Margaret Q POLGLAZE John 1875 Millom, Holy Trinity Cumbria Certificate Services C4/1/443

These two births that Erika posted:
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 155
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 173

are almost surely related to these two births:
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in ULVERSTONE UNION Volume 25 Page 215
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in ULVERSTONE UNION Volume 25 Page 215


Tawny Report 5 Sep 2020 16:17

Thank you for giving me Margaret’s marriage. Those births are definitely interesting as Quiggin is an unusual name.

From the digging I’ve done Quiggin appears to be the maiden name of Margaret and Eleanor’s grandmother on their fathers side. It is possible Margaret and Henry are cousins of Margaret and Eleanor.


mgnv Report 6 Sep 2020 11:20

Marriages Mar 1846 (>99%)
GREENLAW John Stepney 2 397
Tucker Caroline Augusta Stepney 2 397

Event Place: Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England
Registration District: Ulverstone
[Registration Sub-District: 5 West Broughton ff.246-371. ]
Page Number: 24
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 2275 / 261
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Greenlaw Head Male 33 Whitehaven, Cumberland M Principal Coast Officer
Caroline A Greenlaw Wife Female 33 Limehouse, Middlesex M
Margaret Q Greenlaw Daughter Female 1 Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire
Henry T Greenlaw Son Male 0 Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire


Tawny Report 6 Sep 2020 15:43

Thank you for finding John and Caroline’s marriage and the family on the 1851 census.