Genealogy Chat

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If the father wasn't named on the birth cert, I'm afraid that's the end of your quest.

It's ok Ty for your help.I have been trying to trace the"father"of said child for years without success.The mother made an awful lot up and therefore made looking for people very difficult.She def has reg the child twice in 2 different places but there are no family left to question why now.

I shall leave this thread but no-one else needs to use their time in anymore searches.
Thank you all for all your help
Florence in the Hebrides

if the child was born on 25th december 1877 she would have reg the birth jan-march quater 1978 my mother was born 1918 november and was reg in jan/march quarter 1919 can you tell us the childs name

Does the child feature on the 1939 registration listings?
If so, what date of birth is shown?

Hello again.
I have checked both birth certificates and they are 2 separate registrations but it is the same parent and child details.

Heres what i think happened.

Family story said she went off with a sailor and got pregnant. came back alone and raised the child, later marrying another and had further siblings(i have all those details).

The fathers occupation says a Water Proofer which could have meant he worked for a shipping co! So she got pregnant had the child on 25 Oct 1877 in london. She then moved back to her hometown of Ramsgate and pretended she had the child on 25 Dec 1877. She then re-registered the child in Feb/Mar 1878.

She claimed she was married to the father but no trace of any marriage has ever been found unless it was abroad! Maybe in reality, the father was a married man so it was covered up?
Anyway, its a long saga, i dont think i will ever solve as there is none left that i have traced alive who can fill in the missing details.

They are not on any census in 1881. But the variants of the spelling of the surname made it very difficult to find.
The only bit of the jigsaw i solved was seeing on a census in 1901, i think it said the childs birth was London and i couldnt understand that as i had the birth cert with kent on it but now I found this birth, I can see whats happened.

I shall now & then keep searching for the elusive father, msrriage and there whereaboiuts in 1881 but for now, thankyou for the help with this new address.

If i do ever find out any new details etc, i will of course come back to this thread and let you know and i will not create another thread...sorry for that.
Thanks again

Florence in the hebrides

Have you tried looking at the Charles Booths maps to see if they cover that road.

The notes might give a clue :booth.lse.ac.uk/map.

Have you checked to see if there is a Post Office Directory for 1870/1880 ?

Edit: the directory for 1880 gives a Herbert John Meredith living at No1. Flour Factr.

Are the actual dates of birth on both certificates identical?

Sorry I meant things that we look for sometimes are not meant to be found!

Hello firstly I do apologize for not returning earlier.
Also I had completely firgotten i had out up a thread about this birth back in 2019 so sorry for that.

I dont want to start all over again etc but i do have both both certs and the mothers name and maiden name are identical.
I have searched and searched for them in 1881 without fail!

But on other censuses in 1891 or 1901 I was confused when it gave the chilsds place of birth as London on one and kent on another!

When I recently got this 2nd cert, I had hoped the address might have given me some new leads but alas not.

Thankyou for all your suggestions. Sometimes, the things we look for are just meant to be found i guess.

Florence in the hebrides

Do you have both certs, to be sure it's the same child?
Or checked on GRO to be sure both have the same mmn?



For instance, just as an example, these two are NOT the same child, though the registrations fit what you've told us so far:

ADAMS, FRANCES HARRIET mmn BLACKBURN
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 471

ADAMS, FRANCES HARRIET mmn SUTTON
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in THANET Volume 02A Page 880

Related thread?? - though not giving the child's name:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1378137

If you haven't found the child in 1881, perhaps you'd like us to help?

It seems bizarre that someone would register the birth twice .................

Can't find the address in 1877, so far.

1878 -

Lyons Cooper
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Lyons Cooper
Electoral Date: 1878
Street Address: 1 Pelham-street
Ward or Division/Constituency: Christ Church
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets, England
Reference Number: MR/PER/B/029

George Ashby
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: George Ashby
Electoral Date: 1878
Street Address: 1 Pelham street
Ward or Division/Constituency: All
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea, England
Reference Number: MR/PER/B/025


1876 -

Charles Bill
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Charles Bill
Electoral Date: 1876
Street Address: 1 Pelham street
Ward or Division/Constituency: All
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea, England
Reference Number: MR/PER/B/013


Unfortunately these lists aren't arranged by street.
They're alphabetical by householder's surname.


ADDED:

Lyons Cooper
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Lyons Cooper
Electoral Date: 1880
Street Address: 1 Pelham-street
Ward or Division/Constituency: All
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets, England
Reference Number: MR/PER/B/040

But in 1881 he's at 8 Pelham Street.

And No 1 Pelham Street eludes us so far.

Erika, thanks for replying. The birth was in 1877.The relative reg her birth in 2 places I have now discovered.First in london in in Nov 1877 and then in Feb 1878 in Margate.

The trouble is the address on the cert that i have given may not have been there in1881 some 4 years later.

I have been researching this person for several years and when i found this birth reg in London, i thought I had made a breakthrough but obviously not. The female lied so many times on later censuses, its very hard what to believe.

Nevermind, thanks for looking anyway.

Florence in the hebrides

The census records for 1881 start at No 3, as far as I can tell by scrolling though numerous images.

Unless the birth was within a few days of the census being taken, I don’t think you can be sure that the same people were at the address

It would be helpful if you gave the exact details from the cert............

Would some kind person mind doing a look up by address for me please. I would like to know who was living at this address in 1881
1 Pelham street, Spitalfields, London (district is mile end)

I have received a new birth certificate but the spelling of surname is very unclear.
This birth was registered twice!!

The details on cert dont really matter, I just to find out who lived there.

Thanks
Florence in the hebrides