Genealogy Chat

Thanks, Gran.
Looks like I am going to have to send for a few birth certificates (haven't had to do that for a while).

So, the possible birth records of the possble adopted daughters are:

MACEY, ADA -
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 470

MACEY, ELIZA ESTHER mmn COLLETT
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 481

MACEY, JANE mmn CRAWLEY
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 418


BUT we don't know if any of those are actually the births of the "Harris" girls (EDIT:
- apart from Jane) .

Still haven't found a possible birth for Elizabeth Harris born c1848-9 in Newington (per 1861 census) or Kingsland (per 1851 ).

I don't see any Macey/Collett (or other spelling) marriage, nor a Macey/Crawley marriage.



Annie Elizabeth (mmn Hamling) is NOT the child with Charles & Jane.
She's with her mother in 1881;

Joseph Thomas Harris
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Joseph Thomas Harris [bootmaker]
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1852
Marriage Date: 15 Apr 1879
Marriage Place: St John, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: John Harris [ chapel (something?) ]
Spouse: Mary Ann Hamling [ father: Thomas Parr Hamling, carpenter ]
Register Type: Parish Register

Mary Ann born 1848 in Kelvedon, Essex, per 1851, 1861, 1871 censuses. Parents : Thomas, and Phillis Goodman.

Mary A. Harris
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Mary A. Harris
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Gender: Female
Where born: Essex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 76 Church Rd
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Laundress
Registration District: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors:
Piece: 309
Folio: 80
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
John Kinlen 25
Elizabeth Kinlen 23
Mary A. Harris 32
Annie E. Harris 1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Ann Cable 29
Mary Ann Cable 12

Newington would be Stoke Newington.
Kingsland is an adjacent area or sub-district.
My father was born in Stoke Newington.
Jane 1871, my gran, is definitely Macey and I have her birth cert. It was issued in 1936 and I imagine she sent for it so as to apply for her State pension.

???? Annie / Elizabeth ??

MACEY, ANN ELIZABETH mmn HARRIS
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 497

That's a new twist (MMN Harris).
Looks like I need the certificate.

Certificate for Ada:
Ada Macey born 18/09/1874 @ 4 Middle Street, Mother: Elizabeth Macey, Charwoman, no father given, informant R Watson, Occupier of 4 Middle Street, registered 28/10/1874.

Same Elizabeth as Jane but no longer with Charles (assuming he existed)?
Unless, of course, R Watson was a lodger and simply did not know that Elizabeth was married to Charles.

With the two births, 1871 and 1874, both being at Middle Street, with mother Elizabeth, it does seem that Elizabeth Mally on the 1871 census is Elizabeth Macey, as you suspected.

I still hold to the thought that she is the Harrises' daughter, using the surname of a partner to whom she's not married.

???

Deaths Jun 1883 (>99%)
Macey Elizabeth 34 Hackney 1b 301

Eliza/Elizabeth Harris
Aged 2 on 1851 census, Born Prospect Place, Kingsland
Baptised 17/09/1848 at West Hackney parish church as Eliza Harriet Harris, parents Charles & Jane Harris of Upper Prospect Place, Kingsland

She therefore seems to be their natural child, as do Charles (1854) and George (1860).
I've looked at records for William c. 1865 but Harris or Macey does not seem to come up as MMN other than:-
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
MACEY, WILLIAM FREDERICK -
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 402

The odd thing about what seem to be the Harris natural children is the long gap between births: around six years instead of the usual two (1848, 1854 and 1860)!

If William was the son of Elizabeth as above she would have about 18 when he was born.

The witnesses to Eliza Esther's marriage to Walter Alexander in 1902 were Ada Harris (actually born Macey) and W. Macey.

The gap between the Harrises' natural children could be because of miscarriages.


Re William Frederick Macey 1865 -

William Frederick Macey
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: William Frederick Macey, carman
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1865
Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1892
Marriage Place: St John, Hackney, Hackney, England
Father: Charles Macey , labourer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Ada Johnson
Register Type: Parish Register

William's address is - guess what? - 4 Middle Street.

Witnesses: William Johnson and Lilian Ethel Taylor.


William Frederick is still called Harris in the 1881 census (posted on page 1).

I assume this is him in 1891, now calling himself Macey, with Jane Harris and her son George:

William Macey
in the 1891 England Census
Name: William Macey
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Relationship: Boarder
Birth Year: 1865
Birth Place: Hackney, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerston All Saints
Residence Place: West Hackney, Hackney, London, England
Registration District: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, Institution or Vessel: 22
Neighbors:
Piece: 190
Folio: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Harris 69 - married, Hertfordshire
George Harris 31 - son, general labourer, Hackney
William Macey 26 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< carman
Henry Skinner 37
Mary A Toumey 24

However, they're at 23 Acton Street, not 4 Middle Street.


Charles Harris is at 4 Middle Street in 1891, with daughters, and calling himself a widower:
(1891 posted on page 1)

Looking for a Charles Macey of about the right age to be the children's father (assuming not too different from Elizabeth's age) , in Hackney at the right time for at least some of the children's births - there's this possibility:


Charles Macey
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Charles Macey
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: 1844
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Macey
Mother's Name: Sarah Macey
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: West Hackney
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: 9 Abbott Street <<<<<<<<<<<
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Hackney
Sub-registration District: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 88
Piece: 155
Folio: 35
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
George Macey 59
Sarah Macey 56
Charles Macey 17 - son, wheelwright
George Macey 13 - son
Elizabeth Macey 28 - daughter-in-law, widow, Whitchurch, Dorset
Elizabeth Macey 3 - grand-daughter, Hackney.


I don't see his birth - mmn Windmill.
The only Charles Macey born 1844 Hackney has mmn Tinsley.


He's not with the family in 1851:

George Macey
in the 1851 England Census
Name: George Macey
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Macey
Gender: Male
Where born: Kingsland, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: West Hackney
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Hackney
Sub-registration District: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 21
Piece: 1504
Folio: 220
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
George Macey 49
Sarah Macey 46
John Macey 21
Henry Macey 7
Sarah Macey 5
George Macey 3
Lucy Macey 9 Mo


MACEY, HENRY mmn WINDMILL
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 183

MACEY, SARAH ANN mmn WINDMILL
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 195

MACEY, GEORGE mmn WINDMILL
GRO Reference: 1848 J Quarter in HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 202

MACEY, LUCY ELLEN mmn WINDMILL
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 234


Possibly Lucy's death:
MASSEY, LUCY 0
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 154

Three of the many children of George and Sarah were baptised on 13 Sept 1840 in Hackney -
Charles, Emily, and William Henry.


Charles Macey
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1920
Name: Charles Macey
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 13 Sep 1840
Baptism Place: Hackney, Hackney, England
Father: George Macey
Mother: Sarah Macey
Register Type: Parish Register


But I think that Charles (baptised 1840) is the husband of the widowed Elizabeth:
- address 9 Abbott Street at marriage:

Charles Macey
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Charles Macey
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1830
Marriage Date: 1 Feb 1857
Marriage Place: St Philip, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: George Macey
Spouse: Elizabeth Beavis
Register Type: Parish Register


Birth of the grand-daughter Elizabeth:

MACCY, ELIZABETH ASENETH mmn BEAVIS
GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 313

Death of the Charles who married Elizabeth:

MACEY, CHARLES 30
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 246


Elizabeth Macey (nee Beavis) remarried in Hackney in 1863, to Edwin George Crutchfield, and had several more children.
1871 - they're in Leyton, Essex; 1881 - they're in Glenarm Road, Hackney.
In 1888 they emigrated to Philadelphia, USA.
She died in New Hampshire in 1913.

But I digress.

I don't see Charles 1844 at any time other than 1861.

Thank you Gran, that's a lot to take in.

Jane c. 1826 nee Crawley married to Charles is a right pain with regard to her age on the censuses:
1841 15 looks OK-ish
1851 25 looks OKiish
1861 31 would be 35
1871 44 looks OK-ish
1881 45 would be 55
1891 69 would be 65

If she died in Hackney the most plausible seems in 1896 with the age given as 74 which would tie up with the 1891 census but put her birth back to 1822.
Hackney 1b 363 Dec qtr. 1896

1861 census says she was born in Ware, Herts.
Other censuses only say Hertfordshire, or London.

Her father was James, a tailor, per her marriage cert.
But there's no sign of a likely birth or baptism.

A James Crawley married in Ware in 1825, to Sarah Frances - but I don't know what his occupation was, and don't see them later.

Re the 1896 death - looks like another cert needed!

2 certs ordered, should arrive mid-week.
Ann Elizabeth Macey birth 1880 and Jane Harris death 1896.

Here's another daughter:

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HARRIS, EMILY CRAWLEY
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 105

She died the following year.

Rose

Jane Harris death 1896 is unconnected.

But Ann Elizabeth Macey born @ 4 Middle Street on 13 June 1880 is the daughter of Elizabeth Macey, formerly Harris, and Charles Macey. Registered by C Macey, father on 21 July 1880.

Elizabeth looks to be the eldest Harris daughter (1848) but Ann's baptism on 4th July is in the Harris surname !

Thanks for letting us know, Brian.

Good news about Ann Elizabeth

Jane was 69 per 1891 census posted earlier, and still living in Hackney.

Other possibilities - going by her probable YOB 1822, though none in Hackney:

Deaths Mar 1894 (>99%)
Harris Jane 72 St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 322

Deaths Sep 1896 (>99%)
Harris Jane 74 Paddington 1a 21

Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
Harris Jane 77 Pancras 1b 15

Deaths Dec 1903 (>99%)
Harris Jane 82 Paddington 1a 38

I think I'd sent for the certificate before I saw you post about her still living in 1891, never mind.

The cert you sent for was 1896 - so a perfectly good option on the face of it.

Ages stated on death certs are only as good as what the informant believes to be true.

On the face of it my grandmother, Jane Macey, and Ann Elizabeth, MAY be half sisters, sharing Charles Macey as their father.

This is really making a mess of my tree which was built on the assumption that all those shown on the censuses as Harris, were Harris, but half turn out to be Maceys !!!!