Genealogy Chat

???? Annie / Elizabeth ??

MACEY, ANN ELIZABETH mmn HARRIS
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 497

Newington would be Stoke Newington.
Kingsland is an adjacent area or sub-district.
My father was born in Stoke Newington.
Jane 1871, my gran, is definitely Macey and I have her birth cert. It was issued in 1936 and I imagine she sent for it so as to apply for her State pension.

So, the possible birth records of the possble adopted daughters are:

MACEY, ADA -
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 470

MACEY, ELIZA ESTHER mmn COLLETT
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 481

MACEY, JANE mmn CRAWLEY
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 418


BUT we don't know if any of those are actually the births of the "Harris" girls (EDIT:
- apart from Jane) .

Still haven't found a possible birth for Elizabeth Harris born c1848-9 in Newington (per 1861 census) or Kingsland (per 1851 ).

I don't see any Macey/Collett (or other spelling) marriage, nor a Macey/Crawley marriage.



Annie Elizabeth (mmn Hamling) is NOT the child with Charles & Jane.
She's with her mother in 1881;

Joseph Thomas Harris
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Joseph Thomas Harris [bootmaker]
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1852
Marriage Date: 15 Apr 1879
Marriage Place: St John, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: John Harris [ chapel (something?) ]
Spouse: Mary Ann Hamling [ father: Thomas Parr Hamling, carpenter ]
Register Type: Parish Register

Mary Ann born 1848 in Kelvedon, Essex, per 1851, 1861, 1871 censuses. Parents : Thomas, and Phillis Goodman.

Mary A. Harris
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Mary A. Harris
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Gender: Female
Where born: Essex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 76 Church Rd
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Laundress
Registration District: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors:
Piece: 309
Folio: 80
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
John Kinlen 25
Elizabeth Kinlen 23
Mary A. Harris 32
Annie E. Harris 1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Ann Cable 29
Mary Ann Cable 12

Thanks, Gran.
Looks like I am going to have to send for a few birth certificates (haven't had to do that for a while).

Assuming whoever registered the birth was telling the truth, the dash should mean that the mother's surname was Macey, and she was unmarried.

However, the birth cert should give the mother's first name as well, which might help track her down.

Quite likely, the Harrises and Maceys seem to have lived inter-twining lives.

Shame there is no MMN on the GRO birth record unless the dash is meant to indicate that it is the same as her current name?

Ada in 1911, with her future husband:

Ada Harris
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ada Harris
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: St John-at-Hackney
Country: England
Street Address: 4 Middle St, Shacklewell Lane, Hackney
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Mangling
Registration District Number: 11
Sub-registration District: North Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 1065
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Harris 86
Ada Harris 36
Harry Worboys 35


Ada L Worboys
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Ada L Worboys
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1874 <<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 82 Morley House
Residence Place: Hackney, London, England
Occupation: Incapacitated
Line Number: 12
Schedule Number: 184
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: AIBJ
Borough: Hackney
Registration district: 12/1
Inferred Spouse:
Harry C Worboys
Household Members Age
Harry C Worboys 64
Ada L Worboys 65


????
MACEY, ADA -
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 470

I'm starting to wonder if the Harrises actually had any children of their own !

Ada Louise married another of my rellies in 1914 but I can't identify her birth c.1873/4.

??? Coincidence ?? Or yet another adopted daughter for the Harrises?

MACEY, ELIZA ESTHER mmn COLLETT
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 481

You say that Elizabeth 1880 is Annie Elizabeth -

she's Annie in 1891 census, but the birth you suggest is not the right one - unless she's not Jane Crawley's daughter:

HARRIS, ANNIE ELIZABETH mmn HAMLING
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 619

[Perhaps another adopted daughter, like your gr-grandmother ??]

Annie Harris
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Annie Harris
Gender: Female
Age: 10
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1881
Father: Charles Harris
Birth Place: Hackney, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: West Hackney
Residence Place: Hackney, Hackney, London, England
Registration District: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, Institution or Vessel: 9
Neighbors:
Piece: 186
Folio: 77
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Harris 64
Jane Harris 19
Ada Harris 16
Eliza Harris 13
Annie Harris 10


If this is her marriage, she's Annie Elizabeth then - father Charles Harris, labourer:

Annie Elizabeth Harris
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Annie Elizabeth Harris
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1881
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1904
Marriage Place: West Hackney, Hackney, England
Spouse: George Edwin Cane
Register Type: Parish Registe


She's also Annie Elizabeth when she's a witness to Ada Louise's marriage in 1914.

If Eliza and Elizabeth/Annie in 1881 census are both daughters of Charles & Jane, I don't see their births.

Eliza is definitely Eliza Esther who married in 1902 - father Charles, address 4 Middle Street.
But no birth record, as far as I can see.


Eliza Ether Harris
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Eliza Ether Harris
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Charles Harris
Birth Place: Hackney, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: St James West Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 4 Middle Street
Occupation:
Registration District: Hackney
Sub-registration District: North Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors:
Piece: 214
Folio: 100
Page Number: 26
Household Schedule Number: 174
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Harris 78
Ada Louise Harris 26
Eliza Ether Harris 23

There's no sign of the Eliza/beth in 1851 and 1861 having died between 1861 and 1881, nor any marriage - assuming either would have been in Hackney RD..

It may or may not apply in this case, but it's not unknown for two concurrent siblings to have the same name.
Must have been very confusing.

Eliza Harris:
Aged 2 on 1851 census, Born Prospect Place, Kingsland
Baptised 17/09/1848 at West Hackney parish church as Eliza Harriet Harris, parents Charles & Jane Harris of Upper Prospect Place, Kingsland
Aged 13 as Elizabeth on 1861 census, born Middx., Newington

On the 1881 census we appear to have:
Charles Harris aged 50
Jane Harris aged 45
William Harris aged 16
Jane Harris aged 10
Ada Harris aged 8
Eliza Harris aged 3 - Appears as Eliza Esther Harris aged 23 on 1901 census and married Walter Alexander in 1902 - Hackney 1b 748 Jun qtr. 1902
Elizabeth Harris aged 10 months - Actually Annie Elizabeth - birth Hackney 1b 619 Jun qtr. 1880

If their first child was named Eliza I wonder why they would use the same name again unless the first one had died?

Do you mean Elizabeth Harris, ErikaH?

Can't see her anywhere as Harris after 1861.

I wondered if this mmn was Crawley mistranscribed :

HARRIS, ELIZABETH mmn SERANY
GRO Reference: 1846 S Quarter in HACKNEY UNION Volume 03 Page 197

But it's too early.

1851 - Eliza Harris born in Prospect Place, Kingsland, c 1849.
1861 - Elizabeth Harris born in Newington, Middlesex, c1848.
1871 - Elizabeth Mally born in Shacklewell, c1847

ArgyllGran may well be right and Elizabeth Mally/Macey is Charles and Jane Harris's eldest daughter: the age and MMN would both fit.
I was assuming that as she was described as Visitor on the 1871 census she was an external person when in fact it was indicating that 4 Middle Street wasn't her normal address.
I'll look back at the 1871 census to check what her place of birth was.

That's why I wondered if she might be using the name Mally (Macey ?).

I know she's listed as a lodger rather than a daughter, but that's not an unknown happening.

Eliza Harris
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Eliza Harris
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles Harris
Mother's Name: Jane Harris
Gender: Female
Where born: Bospect [Prospect ] Place, Kingsland, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hornsey
Ecclesiastical parish: Stoke Newington St Matthias
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Edmonton
Sub-registration District: Hornsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 1d
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 123
Piece: 1702
Folio: 107
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Harris 22
Jane Harris 25
Eliza Harris 2


Kingsland is/was in Hackney RD

Here are Charles and Jane with children in 1861:

Charles Harris
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Charles Harris
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: 1829
Relation: Mars
Gender: Male
Where born: Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney St John
Ecclesiastical parish: West Hackney
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Hackney
Sub-registration District: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 183
Piece: 154
Folio: 124
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Stiles 36
Ann Stiles 37
Richard Stiles 8
Frank Stiles 6
William Stiles 5
Fredrick Stiles 2
Charles Harris 32
Jane Harris 31
Elizabeth Harris 13 - daughter, Newington
Charles Harris 7
George Harris 1


Just a wild thought -
is it possible that their daughter Elizabeth is Elizabeth Macey/Mally, perhaps using a partner's surname in 1871 even though unmarried??
The ages would fit.

Have you found Elizabeth Harris after 1861?
Have you found her birth?
I can see Charles and George's births, but not hers.

HARRIS, CHARLES mmn CRAWLEY
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 103

HARRIS, GEORGE mmn CRAWLEY
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 316

Charles Macey registered the birth on 20th November (1871).