Genealogy Chat

Quite new to this, but in tracing my family tree a Lydia Caulder marries a George Alfred Duffell in 1899, But I can not find any birth records for her, she only appears in marriage and in the 1901 and 1911 census. Am I doing something wrong?

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from freebmd

Marriages Dec 1899
CAULDER Lydia ....Kingston 2a 743 i
DUFFELL George Alfred .... Kingston 2a 743

On Ancestry

A copy of the marriage 25th December 1899,shows her as a spinster, 21, a laundress,daughter of Arthur George Caulder( deceased) a greengrocer.

Witnesses were Emily Elizabeth Stevens and Horace Henry Holdsworth

For our info -

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
34, York Road, Kingston on Thames, Kingston upon Thames, Kingston, Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George A Duffell Head Married Male 23 1878 General labourer Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England
Lydia Duffell Wife Married Female 22 1879 Shirt ironer Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England
Elsie M Duffell Daughter - Female 2 1899 - Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England
George F Duffell Son - Male 0 1901 - Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
DUFFELL, GEORGE THOMAS CAULDER
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 383

??
CAULDER, ELSIE MAY -
GRO Reference: 1899 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 567

Is this Lydia, on census as Lizzie? Second initial ? H on original

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
5, Elton Road, Kingston, Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Arthur Caulder Head Married Male 32 1849 Greengrocer Walton, Surrey, England
Elizabeth Caulder Wife Married Female 29 1852 - Berkshire, England
Arthur G Caulder Son Single Male 3 1878 - Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England
Lizzie A Caulder Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England
Edwin Caulder Son Single Male 0 1881 - Kingston on Thames, Surrey, England

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1879 (>99%)
Caulder Lizzie Henrietta Kingston 2a 307

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CAULDER, LIZZIE HENRIETTA SANDERS
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 307

CAULDER, ARTHUR GEORGE SANDERS
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 309


Parents marriage

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
CAULDER Arthur Kingston 2a 373
Dymock John Kingston 2a 373
SANDERS Elizabeth Kingston 2a 373
SPEED Elizabeth Kingston 2a 373

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
53, Elm Vale, Kingston, Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Arthur Caulder Head Married Male 44 1847 Greengrocer Walton on Thames, Surrey, England
Elyzabeth Caulder Wife Married Female 39 1852 - Reading, Berkshire, England
Arthur G Caulder Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Norbiton, Surrey, England
Lizzie Caulder Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Norbiton, Surrey, England
Edwin Caulder Son - Male 10 1881 Scholar Norbiton, Surrey, England
Percy Caulder Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Norbiton, Surrey, England
Nellie Caulder Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Norbiton, Surrey, England
Daisy Caulder Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Norbiton, Surrey, England
Bertie Caulder Son - Male 2 1889 - Norbiton, Surrey, England
Herbert Caulder Son - Male 0 1891 - Norbiton, Surrey, England

Apologies for mixed up transcript - it's the way FMP transcript shows when copied and pasted. Read every other line -

EDIT - have put the details in order they appear to make it easier to read.

Surrey Marriages
Kingston upon Thames, St Luke, Surrey, England

First name(s) George Alfred
Last name Duffell
Birth year 1877
Age 22
Marital status Bachelor
Occupation Labourer
Marriage year 1899
Marriage date 25 Dec 1899
Place Kingston upon Thames, St Luke
County Surrey
Country England
Spouse's first name(s) Lydia
Spouse's last name Caulder
Spouse's birth year 1878
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's condition Spinster
Spouse's occupation Laundress
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Duffell
Father's occupation Painter
Spouse's father's first name(s) Arthur George
Spouse's father's last name Caulder
Spouse's father's occupation Green Grocer Dec
First witness Emily Elizabeth Stevens
Second witness Horace Henry Holdsworth
Archive Surrey History Centre
Archive reference 2209/2
Register type Marriages
Year range 1899-1906
Page 25
Record set Surrey Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain
© Findmypast

Marriage of her parents

Surrey Marriages
Norbiton, St Peter, Surrey, England

First name(s) Arthur
Last name Caulder
Birth year 1848
Age 28
Marital status Bachelor
Occupation Greengrocer
Marriage year 1876
Marriage date 14 Feb 1876
Place Norbiton, St Peter
County Surrey
Country England
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Sanders
Spouse's birth year 1852
Spouse's age 24
Spouse's condition Spinster
Father's first name(s) Meliam <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< William on original
Father's last name Caulder
Father's occupation Railway Officer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Relieving Officer on original
Spouse's father's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's father's last name Sanders
Spouse's father's occupation Coachman
By licence or banns Licence
First witness James Sanders
Second witness Sarah Robins
Archive Surrey History Centre
Archive reference 3046/1/15
Register type Marriages
Year range 1866-1877
Page 229
Record set Surrey Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain
© Findmypast

In 1901, widowed Elizabeth Caulder and children are living next door( 36 York Road) to married daughter Lydia

Name Arthur Caulder
Sex Male
Age 4
Birth Year (Estimated) 1847
Birthplace Walton On Thames, Surrey
Marital Status Unmarried
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey, England
Event Place (Original) Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey, England
Line Number 15
Page Number 1
Piece/Folio 1603 / 111
Registration Number HO107
Arthur Caulder's Parents and Siblings

Open All
William Caulder Father M 37 Coleham, Surrey
William Caulder person details
Name William Caulder
Sex Male
Age 37
Birth Year (Estimated) 1814
Birthplace Coleham, Surrey
Marital Status Married
Occupation Relieving Officer
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey, England
Event Place (Original) Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey, England
Line Number 15
Page Number 1
Piece/Folio 1603 / 111
Registration Number HO107
Susannah Caulder Mother F 37 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Giles Caulder Brother M 8 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Edward Caulder Brother M 7 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Mary Jane Caulder Sister F 5 Walton On Thames, Surrey
William Caulder Brother M 13 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Herbert Caulder Brother M 2 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Henry James Caulder Brother M 11 Walton On Thames, Surrey
Susannah Caulder Sister F 10 Walton On Thames, Surrey

????


Baptism entry
While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data
Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
Church name (Links to more information) St Andrew
Register type (Links to more information) Other Transcript
Baptism date 20 Feb 1814
Person forename William
Person sex M
Father forename William
Mother forename Mary
Father surname CAULDER
Person abode Cobham
Father occupation Coachman
Transcribed by Jackie Dinsdale
File line number 829

Name William Caulder
Sex Male
Marital Status Single
Spouse's Name Susannah Davis
Spouse's Sex Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 10 November 1836
Event Place Walton, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Walton, England

? Baptism of Lizzie Caulder BUT 1876 .

Surrey Baptisms
Norbiton, St Peter, Surrey, England

First name(s) Lizzie
Country England
Last name Caulder
Archive Surrey History Centre
Baptism year 1876
Archive reference 3046/1/3
Baptism date 25 Nov 1876
Register type Baptisms
Father's first name(s) Arthur
Year range 1874-1882
Father's occupation Greengrocer
Page 74
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Record set Surrey Baptisms
Residence Park Place
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place Norbiton, St Peter
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
County Surrey
Collections from England, Great Britain
© Findmypast

From original - noted as a PB - Private Baptism.
Address Park Place
Maybe because child sickly

There was a birth of a Lizzie Caulder in 1876 Kingston mmn Sanders - looks as though the child died same quarter.


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CAULDER, LIZZIE SANDERS
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 307

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Dec 1876 (>99%)
CAULDER Lizzie 0 Kingston 2a 153


Surrey Burials
Kingston upon Thames, All Saints, Surrey, England

First name(s) Lizzie
Archive Surrey History Centre
Last name Caulder
Archive reference P33/1/35
Birth year 1876
Register type Burials
Burial year 1876
Year range 1875-1878
Age at death 3W
Page 100
Burial date 06 Dec 1876
Record set Surrey Burials
Place Kingston upon Thames, All Saints
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Residence Park Place Norbiton S Pauls
Subcategory Parish Burials
County Surrey
Collections from England, Great Britain
Country England

From original - of Park Place, Norbiton

Was the second Lizzie named for her dead sister and later took the name of Lydia?

2 entries on FMP for Arthur George

Both say born 1 May 1878 and Baptised 25 August 1878.

Transcript has one baptism at St Paul, Kingston Road, the other Norbiton St Peter

In the space at the side of the St Paul one where the entry is on Page 10 of the OPR, P119 written has been written in which is the page in the St Peter OPR. A different person has signed to say who performed the Ceremony

(This same happens for several entries)

Of Elton Road, Father shown as a Fruiterer

Bertie was Baptised 30 November 1900 at All Saints, Witley,

DoB born 13 May 1888. HIs abode is given as K.E.S. Witley as are several of the other entries - probably King Edward's School

Trying to find Baptisms for the other children on FMP as those above.-

There are baptisms to a Giles and Ellen Caulder and Walter and Charlotte in Norbiton - each Father shown as a Greengrocer- around the same time.

Arthur George and Bertie are on Ancestry.
Bertie is listed as Belia also with wrong DoB, so presume mistake by original transcribers

Another child -

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CAULDER, VIOLET SANDERS
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 308

Name: Age at Death (in years):
CAULDER, VIOLET 0
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 200

Newspaper report - age 5 months. Inquest held due to sudden death.
Mother said had 6 children, 4 had had measles. Child had sore throat, poultice applied. OK at 4am, but looked wrong at 4.45 am - Doctor sent for, arrived within 5 minutes, pronounced death approx an hour previous. Child very thin, weighed only 6 ½ lbs despite having oatmeal and milk as well as breast. Lungs inflamed, right side of heart clotted with blood, kidneys and brain congested. Opinion was cause of death due to exhaustion following pneumonia. Verdict in accordance with medical evidence.

Marriage of Arthur Caulder and Elizabeth Sanders gives her Father as Thomas Sanders a Coachman -

??
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Park Corner Lodge, Heckfield Heath, Heckfield, Hartley Wintney, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Sanders Head Married Male 34 1817 Coachman Staffordshire, England
Harriet Sanders Wife Married Female 28 1823 - Norfolk, England

Both recorded as Parish where born not known - just gives County

Am drawn to this marriage for Thomas and Harriet, but can't prove -

Thomas Sanders
in the Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1950

Name Thomas Sanders
Gender Male
Record Type Marriage
Marriage Date 4 Jun 1844
Marriage Place Houghton, Huntingdonshire, England
Father Robert Sanders
Spouse Harriet Elizabeth Ellis
Parish as it Appears Houghton
Page number 16
Provided in Association with Cambridgeshire Libraries and Archives

From original - both of full age. both signed. Witnesses - John and Sarah Newell
Thomas - Bachelor, Servant residing in Houghton at time of marriage. Father Robert a Coachman
Harriet - spinster, of Houghton, Father Richard is a Miller


Thomas' Father is a Coachman, did he become one too?