Genealogy Chat

I have discoverd that two of my ancestors appear to have registered their marriage in 1866 in Scotland and in 1871 in Berwick. Can anyone shed any light on this? I have sent for the 1871 certificate as I have enough details to do that, but have so far been unable to track down the Scottish details.

Kathleen I had a birth like that reg in england and scotland, don't know why tho.

Hi Kathleen Were the marriages in Berwick itself? It's so close to the border but still English,i have some rellies born in Berwick in the 1840-60's and they all claim Scottish birth on the census. Unless it was say Norham or Coldstream,the border runs virtually through the wedding house at Coldstream. Glen

English and Scottish law are different. It is possible that a valid Scottish marriage may not have been perceived as being valid in England. This might happen if one of the parties was divorced (virtually impossible for the English at this date) It would be interesting to see how the certs differ.

I must read more carefully,only just noticed the Scottish marriage is earlier than the English. Glen

Berwick has changed hands between Scotland and England for centuries. Although finally ceded to the English,many townsfolk refuse to accept this and still claim Scottish descent. Maybe these people wanted their bread buttered both sides in case of future disputes! Sylvia.

I am amazed at how fast I get answers to my queries on this site - well worth the registration fee. Thank you to all respondents. Although registered in Berwick my mother told me that these relatives lived in Norham (which I understand is part of Berwick district) and owned a bakery there - although I have my doubts about the 'ownership' factor. At least some of their children are down as having been born in Tweedmouth. Someone else on this site discovered the two marriage years for me. A child was born between the two dates. I am now wondering if this could be a family skeleton - no pun intended! I can't wait to receive the 1871 marriage certificate!

If you haven't been able to track down the details of the Scottish marriage, and you have looked for it on Scotland's People, which is supposed to have all civil registration entries (up to whenever the cut off is), could it be that they didn't actually get married in Scotland? Could you ask the person who found the Scottish marriage for you where they found it? Is it perhaps one of those entries on the IGI (FamilySearch website) that has been added by a member of the LDS church? (Not always very accurate!!) Or, if you put up the names of the bride and groom, perhaps the rest of us can see if we can find it anywhere? Kate.

In the meantime, if it is one of those 'submitted' IGI entries, what seems to happen sometimes is that the 'researcher' finds a couple on a census, assumes that all the children of the father have his current wife as their mother, and then puts up birth entries for them all onto the IGI plus a marriage for the couple before the birth of the first child. Of course, if the wife on the census is a second wife and some of the children belonged to the first wife, this is a complete nonsense. So could it be that the child born between 1866 and 1871 in the case you mention had a different mother? If the father was married to somebody else before, then the 1871 marriage certificate should say 'widower', so you will find out when you get it. Kate.

Thank you, Kate. I am beginning to think that my 'Scottish' ancestry may be a myth. I have looked in vain on Scotland's People site - although I am a relative newcomer to all this research. The 1866 details were found by someone on the familysearch site - which you say is questionable. The 1871 details were from the Ancestry site, I think. It had already occurred to me that this may have been a second marriage for the husband. The child's name is the same as the father's. Another anomaly is that the child is down as having been born in Tweedmouth on the 1871 census, but Scotland on the 1881. The couple in question are Lindsayina (Ross - I think) - b c1848 d 1982 and William Robinson b c1846. My mother told me that this Lindsayina was born in Dunbar. The name Lindsayina is a made up one and I have posted questions about her on both the Robinson and the Ross message boards. On the Ancestry site she is down as Sindsayina on the 1871 census - presumably a problem with deciphering someone's handwriting. Her daughter, of the same name, appears as Levinia on the 1891 census. Other factors are just too much of a coincidence for it not to be her. I can't find the daughter, known as Lindsay, on the 1901 census at all, although I have found her four brothers. I have even checked friends with whom my mother told me she lived at times to no avail. She ought to be somewhere as I knew her and she died in our house in 1954.

If I were you I would definitely wait for the 1871 marriage certificate to arrive and see what it says. Looking for a William Robinson is going to be difficult enough! Kate.

So this is the so-called marriage entry on the IGI: IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles Search Results | Download | Pedigree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- William Robinson Male Family -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: About 1846 Of, , , Scotland Christening: Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: Lindsaying Family Marriage: About 1866 , , Scotland Messages: Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter. It is just total guesswork on somebody's part, almost certainly based on a census entry, and if I were you I would ignore it. Kate.

My other half is Scottish,and an uncle on her mothers' side own the bakery at Norham and Berwick now. Glen

Thank you Kate. I will take your advice and be patient until the 1871 cert arrives. It is difficult for us novices to know which sources are the most reliable. Thank you again for your help. Kathleen

Hi, Glen, Fascinating stuff! Do you know who owned the bakery in 1860s and 1870s? Was it a William Robinson? If you do not know do you know how I might be able to find out? I will be visiting Norham and Berwick in the summer I will make sure I visit the bakery - as well as the churchyard where I believe Lindsayina is buried. Thanks for the info. Kathleen