General Chat

The mortimers helped the earl of oxford to
do down Robert de Welles and finnised it off on his
son Robert de Wellynge in late 1300 early 1400
placing his mother as abess in local convant
Wellynge and welles were the same family often spelt differently and intermittently---it seemed
young robert had been tricked out of his lands
and tittles-------------
still he went to live in salop where they held lands
but there was as big a villians then as now
my point

thanks for your participation
colin

All history is open to debate. One of the first things that I was told when I went to university was that, 'there is no such thing as historical truth'

Nope. A current theory is he wasn't killed at all. "England's Greatest Traitor" by Ian Mortimer, is one book that explores this theory, and there are at least 2 others.

If the claims are correct, Edward was taken first to Corfe Castle, and from there to Ireland. After the death of Roger Mortimer (not an ancestor of the book's author), Edward was set free. He spent the rest of his life in Italy, and actually met Edward III in what is today Belgium.

The red hot poker claims appear to have been invented by cronies of roger Mortimer's biggest enemy the Earl of Lancaster, and were first circulated several years after the alleged murder of Edward II.

Another author to explore the subject is Alison Weir - "Isabella, She-Wolf of France, Queen of England".

Dingbat - do you mean to say that Edward II killled HIMSELF in such a horrible fashion ;-)))

Was Richard II really starved to death or despatched more quickly? I can see why Henry would have balked at killing an annointed king, perhaps just 'forgetting' to feed the king let him off the hook?

History - so many 'ifs' - would love to get a time machine and go back and see some of it for myself - but would have to agree with Dingbat - much of the history we read tends to be written by the 'winners' and is as subject to spin as modern politics.

OK Colin, let's see if the following spurs anything.

The big problem is that history tends to get written by the winners, and is more often than not given a spin to discredit the losers. Two examples:

1. Was Edward II actually murdered in Berkeley Castle, or was it all a scam aimed at discrediting Edward's wife and Roger Mortimer?

2. Was Richard III a baddie or was he smeared after he blew it at Bosworth Field by the Tudors to help bolster their VERY shaky claims to the English throne. If, and it is a very big if, the 2 sons of Edward IV were murdered, it was just as much in Henry VII's interests to have them put down.

i thank you all for your comments and are suprised
that more have not joined in concidering it is
suposed to be a suject close to all our hearts
and interlectually stimulating

have a goodnite all
colin F

Not just the far distant past either Colin.
I have a letter in which my grandad says his father told him he had re-married on 26 December 1926.
I haven't been able to find the remarriage of my g grandfather either 2 years before or after this date, and when he died, the house went straight to my grandfather, not g grandfather's 'wife'.

maggie

just waiting to get Eves birth cert and find her on census,then will look for the marriage,,,,,,,,,then maybe I can get back via her parents,,,,,,,,,)))

come on all you good people on this thread
ime awaiting your learned veiws

colin

On WDYTYA they had, I believe Matthew Pinsett who was descended from a 'Title', they showed a family tree a descendant of this 'Title' had done a couple of hundred years ago - and it went back to Adam & Eve!!

maggie

The danger of beleiving all you read in history, i have come to learn
can be foolishness on the part of any one who believes old
documents family or otherwise to be infalable-----------
It appears a practice in many noble families at one given
period, to claim to have decended from fairies, and elphins ,and
had monks record such in their family trees.Others had theirs
tracing back to saints,or to reigning kings, in short as it benifitted
the individuals thus they had their monks record. In fact one
of the kings of england had his heralds show his pedigree going
back to king David in Isreal------------------So from what i have learned
i would say most family trees and an accurate line of decendancy
is a bit dodgey before 1500 A D
If anybody tells you different-send 'em to me
have a good nite all

colin F

P S perhaps the more learned historians among you would
like to share your findings and opinions
C F