General Chat

Gosh look at the time I had better go to bed. Goodnight Tec and Sylvia

Sylvia - 28 years, man and boy :-D

The Merchant Navy were represented at tonight's ceremony.

2,500 merchant seamen died in WW2

Merchant Seamen sign Articles to the effect that if Britain goes to war they come under the jurisdiction of the military, not allowed to leave the service, and go where you are ordered to.

Tec ................

I agree entirely with you!

I'm just saying that, in my eyes, that is the reason why the CofE dominates.


I am so glad to be in a country where all religions, and non-religious, are recognised at the Cenotaphs.


Not only will there be Anglican, RC and Jewish leaders ................... but there will also often be a First Nations representative, as well as Sikh, Buddhist, etc.


Fully inclusive :-)



it has taken many years to get to this point of course ......................... the WASP mentality was still here when we came in 1968, but there has been more and more inclusion beginning in the '90s

One of our acquaintances in Austin was one of the first to be re-classified ..............


he was a top rate chef from Switzerland, who had been recruited by the local Golf and Country Club for a minimum of 2 years.

He had a 2-year work visa, with the promise that the Club would see to it being extended if he adn they decided that was what they wanted to do.

He was in his mid-30s, and was classified F4 on his arrival


After about 18 months, he received a notice in the mail that he had been re-classified to F1, and would be receiving the papers "soon"


He was out of town and back in Switzerland in less than a week!



That was about April ............ by which time OH had the job up here, and our best friend down there, also a Swiss, was to come to the end of his 2-year visa in September. H and OH were both around 29/30 ........ ie, younger than the chef


both H and ourselves had emergency plans in the event of either of them getting that same notice

Sylvia - Men and women of many religions fought and died for this country in numerous conflicts, not least Jews, and men of the Indian Sub Continent, and Ghurka's, and many others.

Given that we are now a multi-cultural society, is it right that the CofE dominate the National Remembrance Service.

Representatives of the religions of other faiths should be included.

Yes the Queen is the head of the Church of England, but many men of other faiths fought for the freedom of the Sovereign and this country.

Just as I see things - don't expect anyone to agree with me.

it was indeed!



mind you, he could probably have weaseled his way out of it .................. after all he was a well-educated white man, not a poor ill-educated black man

Would that have been for Vietnam Sylvia, if so I am not surprised you left

Tec .........


how long did you do in the Merchant Navy???



BTW ................. is the service of seamen in the Merchant Navy during the war now generally recognised in the UK on November 11???

Yes Linda, you are right about that.

It does seem that the C of E has monopolised remembrance services throughout the land, at every town, village, cenotaph or memorial.

Though it is the Services, and British Legion that lay the wreaths

Linda ..................



the domination by CofE is presumably because CofE is still the religion of the United Kingdom.

that's why we all had to have CofE based assemblies in state schools


nowt much you can do about it when it is the national religion .............. even though you don't hear much about that aspect of it.

The Queen is after all the Head of the Church of England


Here, you do get ministers of various religions participating at the Cenotaph events on November 11


Churches do their own thing on the Sunday ............................


November 11 is the day we observe

Hello Sylvia,

I wouldn't have minded National Service, but narrowly missed it.

Was interested in the RAF at one time, but somehow joined the Merchant Navy :-D

Wanted to travel from boyhood, so it was a good decision that I've never regretted.

Mind you ..................


he then ended up being assessed as suitable for call up in the US in 1967/68 ...................

he was finally classified as F4 ................... too old, sight too bad, and not a US citizen


but then by 1968, we discovered they were re-assessing immigrants on limited 2 year visas who had been classified as F4, and re-classifying them as eligible for call-up


many immigrants, and those on the 2- or 3-year visas (eg students or on limited work permits) left as soon as they could!


including us :-D

I only saw a bit of the service, but it was dominated by the presumably C of E chap in the White cloak and gold hat saying prayers.

Here there is a service at the market cross in the centre of town to lay a wreath, but it is totally C of E praying There are three other denominational churches in the town, but they aren't involved and of course if you are a non believer, then it is nothing to do with you.

I did go into the town in November when they fire a cannon at 11am. It would be an ideal opportunity for some poetry or appropriate prose, but no we are all supposed to say our prayers

Sorry about the rant but I do get annoyed when secular events are hijacked

OH missed being called up by a matter of months ..........

........ he stayed on at school until he was 19, in an attempt to get in Oxford or Cambridge, but then went to Liverpool, got his BSc and was accepted into his PhD in 196, finishing in 1964


and that is how he missed having to do his National Service!

I take your point entirely,

However, I see tonight's remembrance service differently.

I think it is evenly balanced - not all the events had a religious element to them.
For those believers, there would be disappointment were there no religious participation.

As for my own thoughts. As a young man I did have a strong religious faith, but the more I travelled about the world, and realised how much of our world is suffering, my faith evaporated.

Though I still think that for those of faith there is room for a religious element to remembrance services. If it brings comfort to anyone then so be it.

I always found it curious that those who have nothing, seem to have the strongest religious conviction - whatever their faith.

Thank goodness you missed it <3

The Cenotaph, situated on Whitehall in London, was designed as a secular memorial by Edwin Lutyens to reflect the wide range of beliefs and nationalities of those who died in the First World War. It bears no religious inscriptions or symbols, and was unveiled at its dedication in 1919 without any Christian ritual.

So it really annoys me that the remembrance services have been dominated by the church when over half the people in the country say they have no religious beliefs. .Instead of encouraging people to honour the past, it only makes half the population think they have no part in it

Just my view of course, we are passing by a good opportunity to encourage citizenship

I am watching it - not for the religious aspect, but out of respect for the people we have lost - quite moving in places.

I've always felt privileged to be of a generation that wasn't called up to fight.
I missed call up by twelve months.

It is going to be very smart once it is done. It is a good idea to do the carpet before the bed goes back

Yes I do - I am having new ones that I will send for tomorrow, but obviously I can't put them up.
I think my daughter may come next weekend, so I will ask her to do it.

Have to arrange for the men to come to disassemble the bed and move it upstairs,

meanwhile I want to shampoo the carpet - Sue next door said that she will do that for me

Are you watching the remembrance service? OH has it on for some reason. I am putting up with his running commentary about the gobbledygook spouted by religious people