General Chat

Signs are to be erected at Culloden Battlefield asking visitors to respect the site as a war grave following a complaint about picnickers.
A member of A Circle of Gentlemen, a society which recalls the Jacobite cause, said he was furious at the behaviour of some tourists.
Alasdair MacNeill said he saw a family picnicking on top of one of the grave mounds.
The National Trust for Scotland (NTS) said it was aware of the issue.
Culloden, near Inverness, saw the defeat of the Jacobites in April 1746.
The circle takes its name from a secret society in Edinburgh.
It remained loyal to Charles Edward Stuart - Bonnie Prince Charlie - after the Jacobites' defeat at Culloden and continued to meet late into the 18th Century.

Mr MacNeill said he and other members had complained to the trust
He said: "A family of four and their two dogs were sprawled across a grave mound having a picnic.
"The father was leaning against the headstone eating a Scotch egg and smoking a cigarette."
The circle member said he would not expect such behaviour to be acceptable at World War I battlefields such as Flanders or Ypres.

Mr MacNeill said Culloden's fallen were hastily buried in wide, but shallow graves, by British soldiers.
He added: "Many people - especially American tourists, come to Culloden because it is a revered place and to find their relatives."
NTS said it was taking action aimed at encouraging visitors to treat the battlefield with greater respect.
A spokeswoman said: "This is an issue we are aware of and we are currently having signs made up which explain that the battlefield is a war grave and asking visitors to behave accordingly."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8150288.stm

What are your views?

The War Memorial gardens in Norwich have been the subject of contention for years. I was always used to taking my chips from the local market next door to sit on the benches and eat, but always told my son not to climb over the memorial etc.
Other parents weren't so caring and their children would be clambering over the memorial stone, older kids would skateboard around the flower bed edges and drunks congregated there, also druggies and it became a very disrespected space.
I think it is closed off now, and there is still no money to do it up and turn the stone to face the City hall so that the march past and various ceremonies and parades can go past the face of the stone.

We should all teach our youngsters to respect places like that. I did find it heartwarming to see how many young people were at Wooton Bassett to show respect to the bodies of the returning servicemen recently, and in fact all the people who got out of their cars on the roadway to stand in silence and bow their heads as the cars carrying the coffins went by.

Lizx

I have always had a problem with the concept of "the dead" like they are some kind of alien race.

They were not always "the dead",they were the little devils who climbed disrespectfully over everything and sometimes they may have been drunk and congregated somewhere.

By giving their children a picnic at Culloden the parents are giving them a happy memory to take with them should they ever have to risk becoming one of"the fallen".

I must say Secret, that I hadn't thought about it along the lines of people being disrespectful to the graves.....it crossed my mind that if the family wanted to have a picnic, they could have chosen anywhere.......but they chose to remember the fallen at Calloden..... like we chose to take our children to visit the War Museum in Normandy, so they would not forget those who gave their lives so that ours could be better......but I must admit, resting against a grave marker is a bit much.....

In some eastern countries they have family days for ancestors, and they visit the graveyards with food and drink and include the ancestors in their everyday family, and in the evening they light candles which look so pretty on all the graves, with all the presents and flowers......

sally

I believe in treating those that have died with respect but is a picnic at a place where one has gone to remember the dead disrespectful?

However, I'm not so sure I agree with people having a picnic on top of the grave mound itself and leaning against the headstone smoking.

I would say it was acceptable to have a picnic in the graveyard, maybe on a seat but not to sit on a grave. However at least the children will not have a fear of graveyards and maybe death!

Firstly, I think the parents should be applauded for taking their children out in the fresh air, showing them a bit of this nation's heritage and giving them wholesome food rather than stuffing their faces with processed rubbish from McD*******.

Secondly, from what I've seen on the Internet it is not terribly clear that these mounds and markers are graves - they are not definitive headstones but irregular rocks with a few words scratched on them, that have been worn down by 263 years of being exposed to the elements. Comparing the site at Culloden to formal graveyards like those in France and Flanders doesn't hold up here - it is a battlefield site and not a designated and maintained graveyard. Yes maybe the burial mounds should be clearly signposted to show respect for the fallen.

Thirdly, should we then extend this to all the battlefields in the UK? Look at an Ordinance Survey map of our nation and count the crossed swords - this island had battles fought across it over two millenia and I wouldn't mind betting that there are the remains of those who lost their lives under the majority of them - here's a list of a few others I can think of:

Prestonpans
Killiecrankie
The Boyne
Sedgemoor
Naseby
Marston Moor
Newbury
Adwalton Moor
Roundaway Down
Edgehill
St Albans
Northampton
Barnet
Tewkesbury
Bosworth
Towton
Stoke
Ferrybridge
Stirling Bridge
Hastings
Stamford Bridge
Fulford

Sorry, but I think there's a bit of over-sensitivity going on here. Yes Culloden is a site of national importance, and yes there are dead buried there, but surely it is more important that people visit the site to impart history to our children. Again maybe the burial mounds should be marked more clearly if the possibility of someone inadvertantly drifting onto them will cause offence.

What disgusts me more are actions like when some of the "yoof" in my home town daubed our memorial to the fallen of the two world wars with mindless graffitti. Believe me, if I had caught them in the act they'd have got a damn good slapping and stuff the consequences.

Ed

Yes, a memorial and a gravesite should be respected, but when the council tears up the headstones to use them as paving ........
Doesn't set such a good example does it?

My g x 6 grandfather was a commoner, but was buried in Romsey Abbey - as were many commoners before the burial ground a mile away was opened.
I went to find his headstone (that my gran and g aunt had visited in the 1960's) only to be told he couldn't have been buried there as he was a commoner - shows how much they knew!
I found his headstone being used as part of the path to the WWII memorial - almost worn down to nothing!