General Chat

The honest answer is I don't know if it is happening in other countries Sharron...but it makes you wonder why people move abroad. They often say that they're fed up with the crime in the U.K. I have a cousin who lives in New York, Merrick, Long Island. She says she can go out at night and feel safe in her area of the city, but whilst she was over here visiting friends and family in a relatively small town she felt less safe. They have zero tolerence over there it seems. I'm not saying that it would be wise to walk around some areas of NY, you have to be careful in any large city, but she couldn't believe how these yobs got away with it in the smaller towns over here!

Pam.

It seems to me like the actions are often of those who feel they have nothing to lose and I wonder if the British instruct and insult style of parenting may have some input into the situation.

"Eat your dinner" - instruct + "you ungrateful little bu**er"-insult.

It is not a style you seem to see in other countries very much.

It is down to the bad behaviour of the parents, and these days sometimes the very young grandparents too. My mother was not a nice woman, but there was no way we would have let her and Dad down in such a way. They knew where we were roughly at all times, and where we were going to in the evenings. At the first hospital I worked at we lived in, and there were rules of behaviour, No males on premises, all meal to be attended, and book in at the gatehouse when you came home after an evening out, This until you wre 21 yrs old. In the army we were not allowed to stay out after 11pm without a special pass which we had to ask Matron for.

There are many things the Police can do but sometimes they can't be bothered because of all the paperwork. When I lived at my house, we had problems with gangs of lads hanging around in a sheltered area beneath an old lady's flat and they would be noisy, drink and leave cans and bottles and make a mess and urinate near the bins etc so it stunk. The police were called but they just came back after the visit and gave her aggro as they thought it was her calling police altho it was actually someone in another flat further along. Trouble went on for quite a while.
Finally these Dispersal Orders came into being and one was issued so it was illegal for more than a couple of youngsters to hang around in any area, if they continued to do it they could be arrested and taken to their parents and warned about repercussions if they broke the order.
One single mother, in another flat, who was employed and a bit full of herself, said to me that she didn't agree with the order because if her son, who she usually picked up from school, and we never saw out and about anyway, wanted to hang around with a friend and not be doing wrong, he would be tarred with the same brush. I thought that was a very selfish attitude and I wonder how she would have felt had it been her flat that was being targeted and her peace disturbed. Her atttitude was that her son wouldn't do anything bad but was being penalised anyway but I often noticed that some of the children/ teenagers who played up were those whose parents thought their kids wouldn't misbehave, and they were on such a tight rein at home that when they did get out, they went along with others to be part of the gang.

There are many parents who don't care what their kids get up to as long as they are out of their hair, and who don't teach their kids to respect others and their property. Sadly these often seem to be the sort who have hordes of kids, who then go on to have kids at a very young age and bring them up as badly, so carrying on the cycle.

At the moment with this weather I expect there will be fewer burglaries etc and fewer problems with people out causing trouble, many people are helping out neighbours and those around them and there is the old War time spirit coming into play again, making people talk to those nearby and offering help. Let's hope after the snow is gone some of that good spirit stays and things can get better.

Even so, there was the news item of the woman mugged in Barking (hope it wasn't one of my son's rellies) and the poor chap who chased the muggers was stabbed and died later in hospital. A good Samaritan who has now lost his life, leaving a son in India and family here in the Uk. May he rest in peace.

Lizx

Just to answer Sharron....* Is it happening in other Countries *

Yes.....this also goes on in Australia too in certain area's, and i would hazard a guess ( going by our Tele news ) New Zealand also.

My main concern is that our young people here ( Ethnic & White Australian - European ) are not afraid of the law....as we were growing up in the 40s and 50s. At the moment ( where i live ) we are seeing more stabbings in the streets. A young Indian boy was stabbed to death only last week in the streets here, and another this week saw a 60 year old man beaten to death in his own house, and his wife beaten to critical extent, while there young grandson slept. These were only two events that took place on our local news.....let alone what is going on in the rest of the Country.

I also agree with bad parenting, which leads to our young having no discipline or respect for the law or parents........as when they are caught, its just a slap on the wrist, and your on your way to do more damage.

In my young years the local copper would have cracked your head open with his batton for just giving cheek....but now the young kids have discovered they can sue the government and the law, and their own parents.....if they feel like it.


I could write a 40 page port folio on what i think has gone wrong, but my conclusion is....once you take the rights away from the parents, ( which our government has done )and put it into the hands of 13 year old baby's, then we have problems.

Just to add....it is to easy these days for young married or not married couples........ to just walk away from a relationship, leaving their young to do what they want.

Tony ( Australia )

The reason the Police do nothing is simple, they arrest these yobs then they have two hours of paper work, they have to attend court only to see the court give the yobs 10 pence and an orange. I am 83 when I was a youth you were sent to Borstal, and could be birched, you could be given the cane at school and when you got the cane your parents did not rush down the school and threaten the Master or sue the school. Prisons now have on -suite cells, prisoners have rights and organizations to make sure prison is not a nasty place but a nice place with a Gym, Table Tennis, Snooker, Cards, Sports Field and a Library with three good meals a day along with a phone card to phone home. When are we going to really punish miscreants. Destroy those that kill, inflict physical pain on those that cause that cause pain to innocents and make prison so nasty that they wont want to go back.
If the yobs do not want to respect the rights of others, then they should have no rights them selves.
When I was a child you respected your elders and did as you were told because you feared the consequences if you did not, there is no fear now. Bring back the fear in doing wrong and we may see a well disciplined society again.
I was told by a Policeman that he does not arrest anyone two hours before his shift ends because paper work would make him late home. I rest my case.
David

Hi Lynda, well yes I kind of see what your getting with regard to getting involved, but these 'curtain twitchers' as you call them are often people who are too scared to confront these kids and with good reason at times. Some young lads and girls can be very intinidating to people and especially when there's a crowd of them. Lot's of people of my generation were brought up by single parents, myself included, but we didn't go around with this attitude. What about the generation who went through the wars, they didn't throw their weight about and become violent. No, the world and this country has changed for the worse I believe. I agree with a lot of what's been said and that is parents have no control and teachers have no control. I commend you Lynda for doing something and not just standing back...but do please be careful, it only takes one idiot.

Pam. ☺

Sadly,many of the teachers who administered the cane were really not fit to be around,never mind in charge of,children.The teacher who sexually abused Brian Moore is a case in point if the article in the Daily Mail yesterday has any truth in it. They were actually betraying the trust of the parents who entrusted their children to them.

What is happening now may be a backlash from that. People who were punished by teachers who were unrestrained bullies lost faith in the teaching profession and wanted to protect their own children from them.

Yeah a good point Sharron, I remember very clearly some male teachers in the schools that I attended, totally going over the top and caning young lads for things that really didn't warrant it...gone the other way now.

Pam.

Well done Lynda, you're a nice lady.

Pam. xx

i find it a sad britain now to live in

and all the teenagers i listen too get realy patriotic about the country they live in
they are sick of the anti british attitude,
and all want better,

Well my parents set boundaries and you knew not to cross them Yes mum was a bit of a grouch sometimes but with 7 kids and always with an under 5 and a baby around i can now appreciate why BUT we had respect for our parents and our elders as that was how we were brought up ,even neighbours that mum was close to we had to say auntie and uncle to out of respect as it wasnt "right" to say their first names as they were adults,
I remember long term neighbours who rallied around and did all they could when mum and dad died cos they were old friends,

When a neighbour passed away it was the norm in SE London .probably the same elsewhere. for the closest neighbour to do a collection and organise flowers for the funeral from the neighbours.
I guess in past days there was more sense of community

I think many people are too scared to step in when there is a gang of youngsters remembering those who did step in and are no longer with their families to step in any more. Too many youngsters these days carry weapons to be considered 'big' and have no compunction about using them. I have fostered teenagers and I have worked in a very large comprehensive school during lunch hours running a disco and had no fear about tackling them then either in school or out, (70s) but I would think twice now.

Many children have never been made to feel big or wanted or even worthwhile. They have never had any support in trying to achieve anything.They are bringing themselves up,the job their parents should be doing.

If violence is the only thing they have ever excelled at or been admired for,this is what they will carry out.

Quite an interesting thread, and its good to read what others have posted.

I was a widowed dad of three teenage daughters back in the early 90s. My eldest being 16 when their mother died of cancer. I never had any problems with them as they matured, as i felt we has set the ground rules from when they were toddlers.
I know there are many single parents out there, and sometimes its not easy to raise children on your own, but i do feel that good parentage is important from the word go..( toddlers )...whether you are a single parent or not.
I aso beleive in listening to your children, when they have something to say, instead of telling them to go away, and stop bothering you.

Its to late to set ground rules and teach your children to have respect for other people, parents, teachers, property and the law ect..... when they are 13 upwards, because they are already set in there ways, and are in competition with their mates, to show how tough they are to be one of the group and fit in.

My new partner and myself have also been Carers for homeless children, and only last year again we were approached by the DHS ( Dept of Human Services ) and took in a young 12 year old runaway that was being abused by her parents....who are now seperated.
This young girl was a street walker, and also had tried drugs. She was one of 5 children, to parents who were in their late 20s.

Firstly we gained her confidence. Secondly, listening to what she had to say, and at the same time giving her a bit of TLC....but also setting firm ground rules.
With a warning, If these ground rules were broken, then the DHS would be contacted and she would be removed.

She is not with us now, as it was only a short stay till the courts decided her outcome.........and i dont know if we made a diffence to her life, but we did at least show her a different way of living.

I still firmly beleive it has to start from the parents, and make sure they grow up with a goood attitude.
Young children mimic their parents.


I also, do not blame the average policeman on the streets. They do what the book/law makers ( Government ) tells them to do.

Tony ( Australia )

Very sad situation. We have exactly the same problem here in Australia or downunder Siagon as it's soon to be called. All comes down to parenting and excepting responsibility for your actions. Here we all blame the Gov, it's easier.