General Chat

Janey.Stevie- thanks for your help on this.
All resolved. It turned out to be the Charles Jonathan entry which ties in with the Edith( Edie) and Sarah Harsant certificates. Long mystery solved.
Couldn't have done it without your help so thanks very much.

Steve, once you see the info, I think you'll agree that it would be best not to put it here. ;) Private family stuff and all that!

Thanks for the update Janey, yes your right its going to be complicated. I thought I'd look backwards 1st, to find the family connection between Sarah & Edith. I'll ask Mark to forward the info you provided to me.

Also. I'll put up anything I find pre Sarahs' marriage on here & any info I find after this date, I'll PM to Mark & yourself. And hopefully one of the two family members of his you found on here will get back to him.

Steve
:o)

Hi Steve -- Get Mark to send you everything I've sent him.

It's a complicated couple of stories and ones that unfortunately aren't really to be told on the boards. ;)

I'm pretty sure I've found the births of the three siblings, Sarah and Edith and their brother, and found them in 1911, and found the explanations for the odd disconnects in the stories.

The upshot is that I've identified two people who are members of GR who are descended from one of the two sisters, so fingers crossed that they're still receiving notices of PMs at this site!

I haven't though been able to find a baptism for Edith.

EDIT....Time for a pint :o))

This is a list of possible births for Edith Harsant....Note the 1902 Hackney birth is most likely to be her;
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Births Mar 188

HARSANT Edith Rebecca Camberwell 1d 826
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Births Sep 1886

Harsant Edith May Shoreditch 1c 100

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Births Sep 1888

HARSANT Edith May St Saviour 1d 63

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Births Dec 1892

Harsant Edith Frances Greenwich 1d 1000

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Births Jun 1895

Harsant Edith Emily Lambeth 1d 510

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Births Sep 1897

Harsant Edith Maud Lambeth 1d 483

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Births Mar 1902

HARSANT Edith Gladys Hackney 1b 456
HARSANT Edith May W. Ham 4a 108

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Births Dec 1905

Harsant Edith Violet W. Ham
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Hi Mark, thanks for the extra info. 1st Looking backwards with Sarah A Harsant .

This the only Sarah Harsant birth which fits the bill
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Births Mar 1892
Harsant Sarah Ann Hackney 1b 582
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The only other candidate is this one. But I think this birth is very unlikely to be her
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Births Sep 1900
Harsant Minnie Sarah S W. Ham 4a 338
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___________________________________________________

Sticking with the birth Of Sara Ann Harsant.
This appears to be her baptism;

Name: Sarah Ann Harsant
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 26 Feb 1892
Father's Name: Charles Harsant.................Occupation Carman
Mother's Name: Jane Harsant
Parish: St John at Hackney
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex
Household address 83 Morning Lane.

Much as I hate PMs .............. ;)

I've replied that way too -- feel free to pass info back and forth to Steve!

Good God !.. you guys are good. Sorry if I dont give all the info, you will probably tell im fairly new to this.

I'll pass oyu some more info on pm if thats okay.
Thanks very much for your assistance.

Because that Harsant connection does look so good, I'll send you the marriages of the two Bates-Harsant daughters by PM, Mark (plus children for one).

Mark, you're making this a little like the "which man owned the giraffe?" brainteasers. ;)


"So I started to look at his sisters, Edie (presume Edith) and Sal. I know the street /number they lived in in Hackney, London, and found her on the electoral register upto 1976, as Sarah Bates I know this to be correct as my parents lived with her for a few years upto 1965, and said she was old then. My Dad was born in 1931 with his eldest sister born 1923. so I'm assuming Sarah would have been born circ early 1900's , again not sure if Sarah was older or younger than my grandfather."

The three sibs -- your father and his sister, 1923-1931 -- were registered as Anderson? What was their mother's birth surname? (I do understand if you don't want to disclose some info like that, but it's hard to follow, and look further, w/o it.)


"PS- as far as my Dads and his siblings birth certs. All children showed differing first names for the same father."

... And they are ... ?


Steve's find of the matching Harsant-s certainly seems worth pursuing!


Did either Edie/Edith or Sal/Sarah have children, to your knowledge?


A possibly interesting birth:

Name: Edith D Bates
Mother's Maiden Surname: Harsant
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1920
Registration district: Hammersmith
Registration county: Greater London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 377

Sarah naming a child for her sister?

There's one other Bates-Harsant birth in the 20s but we're getting into the realm of possibly living people; you can see it at FreeBMD. It's in Hackney. So Steve's find is looking very good indeed, I would say.

Hi Mark, also couldn't find a marriage for Sarah Anderson to Bates. But looking for Edith (no surname) to Mott. I found these 3 marriages in Hackney (search from 1912 to 1950)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Edith C L Alderman
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Mott
District: Hackney
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 989

Name: Sidney J Mott
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Alderman
District: Hackney
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 989
---------------------------------------------------------

Name: Edith M Harsant
Spouse Surname: Mott
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1923
Registration district: Hackney
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 724

Name: Walter F Mott
Spouse Surname: Harsant
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1923
Registration district: Hackney
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 724
--------------------------------------------------------

Name: Edith W B Plaskett
Spouse Surname: Mott
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1923
Registration district: Hackney
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 728

Name: Carles E Mott
Spouse Surname: Plaskett
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1923
Registration district: Hackney
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 728
--------------------------------------------

Then searching for a marriage using the surnames of the Ediths above to Bates. This was the only result.
-----------------------------------------------
Name: Sarah A Harsant
Spouse Surname: Bates
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Hammersmith
Registration county (inferred): London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 810

Name: John H Bates
Spouse Surname: Harsant
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Hammersmith
Registration county (inferred): London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 810
--------------------------------------------

Regards,
Steve

PS- as far as my Dads and his siblings birth certs. All children showed differing first names for the same father.

Sorry- here goes.
I'm after locating my grandfather, and his line. All chances of locating him have possibly been explored without success. So I started to look at his sisters, Edie (presume Edith) and Sal. I know the street /number they lived in in Hackney, London, and found her on the electoral register upto 1976, as Sarah Bates I know this to be correct as my parents lived with her for a few years upto 1965, and said she was old then. My Dad was born in 1931 with his eldest sister born 1923. so I'm assuming Sarah would have been born circ early 1900's , again not sure if Sarah was older or younger than my grandfather.
To add further to this puzzle our Surname "Anderson" may not be their correct surname, hence why I cant search Sarah under births.
Sarahs sister Edie ( Edith?) lived in the same road for a number of years and married a Mrs Mott. Daes of both marriages and spouses names unknown.
Any help appreciated.

Perhaps the library or council could tell you if it was one of the houses which was knocked down
Liz

So give us a *teensy* bit more to go on.

Where was she living the last year you have the ER for? The town, not the street number. ;)

*About* how old was she / when was she born? You say "elderly" in 1976 - over 60, over 80 ...? Just approx, as best you know.

Thanks for the replies.
Janey- unfortunately we are unsure of her family name and the ages. We know she got married and the electoral register shows a Sarah Bates in 1976 but in 1977 no Sarah and no number 20 in the same street ( apparently some of the houses got knocked down so she may have moved , as elderly may have been into a home.
As mentioned married name Bates-but again dont know partners first name so Mr XXX ? Bates to Miss Sarah XXX ?(could be Anderson).
I ve searched death for 1970- through to 1990 and apart from one none seem to fit. I got that cert but wrong one.
Any ideas?

You are only "taken off" the register when you don't fill out the voting form.
She could well have died in 1975, just after she filled out the form for the next year. Of course, she could have moved or if in a shared household the other person might not of crossed her name out. So may be worth checking deaths in 1974 too.

Fairly easy to search for a death at Ancestry ... as long as you know her year of birth and/or she's not Jane Smith. ;)

Could she have married? Moved?

The answers probably on one of these many many pages but heregoes:-

Does anyone know how upto date electoral registers are? e.g how quickly someones taken off once they die? I found one of my relatives on the 1976 register but then she dissapeared. She may have moved but should I just search 1976 on for her death or is there a chance that she died earlier than 1976 but didnt get removed from the register.?