General Chat

I fiind this an interesting thread.
I cannot imagine losing interest in my tree, Robert. I agree Uggers that the fun is in finding the information and if it was all on a plate it would not be so enjoyable. However it is wonderful when someone comes along and gives you that tiny bit you need to solve a problem or make progress. I have a tree on Ancestry but still believe this to be the better site for making contacts. Often a 'living' person will provide anecdotes and photos which add to the bare bones of the tree.
I suppose everyone is different.

I have a public tree on Ancestry, and I chose to go public instead of private despite having spent alot of money and time on research, as I am happy to share any info.
However, I would say, as others have, that it is always necessary to check that the info. is correct, as I have come across all manner of differences.on trees concerning the same people.
I have seen where people have gone wrong, for instance, census forms can be misleading, especially the part where it says 'relationship' to head of house. also names can be shortened or nicknames used.
I actually love the researching part, and the satisfaction of getting something right.
If one belongs to something like genes or ancestry, I personally think why bother if you are not happy to help others. Why not just do it on your own.
sue

Contrary Mary,
Know how you feel about telling other people who have the same info. but have it incorrect. I also have told this to them and they do not change it. I even went to records office to confirm, and they still do not believe it.

Why do we bother!!! Some people do not like to be told but the danger is that others will copy it and before you know it many more will have incorrect info.
Sue

Susan

you said "Some people do not like to be told but the danger is that others will copy it and before you know it many more will have incorrect info."


That is exactly what happened to me with the One Name Study on my maiden name.

There are hundreds with that name around the world .................... 3 families went from Buckinghamshire to Australia in the 1840s and 1850s. Some then went on to California in the 1870s through to the 1890s. Many seemed to have big families.

The ONSG was set up, and then they had a Family Meet around 2000. I was not invited! The Meet was somewhat secret for some reason ... my brother's widow heard about it, and asked if she could attend, and was told "No".

At the meet, the organiser of the ONSG handed out a cd containing all the information collected to date, etc.

I was given that cd in 2006 by someone in Australia, who also was a member of the family but had not been invited to the Family Meet but had got hold of the cd by somewhat nefarious means (and I'm NOT joking there!)


That's when I discovered that my father had disappeared, my brother (10 years older than me) was married to my mother, and named as my father.


In trying to solve that little "problem" ......... it turned out that the ONSG "leader" was in fact my second cousin, although he never ever answered any emails or letters (and I do now know why!).

He ended up being kicked out of ONS for not responding in timely manner to a query from a member of the public ...... the ONS gave him 6 months in which to respond because I was overseas.

The family name study was then also removed.



However ...... that wrong information is now being spread around the world.


I have been able to contact the person who is now the de facto keeper of the names and history of the family, and she has corrected it in the file that she keeps and that she will pass on in future.

BUT what about all those others who got the cd at that meeting (at least 100 people I believe)




and that was "modern" information.


I do know that much of the ancestral information he collected was/is correct because in fact much of it was collected by other people and handed to him, and it has all been checked over several times.

Other family trees may not be as thorough.



sylvia

Sylvia,
Have only just seen your message, I thought no one else had any more to say.! How awful for you.
This seems more serious when you really think about it. All the wrong info. being spread around. If you tell people an give proof, I don't know what else can be done if they choose to ignore it.
One thing is that if people cant be bothered to check then they are not that interested in family trees.
Sue

Ancestry is very good, but you do get people copying information that is incorrect. not Ancestry's fault I must admit. On Genes you can let someone see your tree, and point out how the family is connected.

I subscribe to both, and find they are both good.

A while back I had a contact through another site, which I did not respond to. Why, because they 'demanded' that I supply them with ALL my certificates as to the connection.

If they had made a nice enquiry I would have sent the certificates down the line eventually anyway, I usually do. But to DEMAND that I do this is not nice, nor was the whole content of the first contact, it was just so rude.

You do catch more flies with honey! :)

Gail

I've said it before on GR but in case some on this thread have missed it, if you want your sister to be m to a man who was b in 1723, despite the fact that they have her father correctly b in 1899, than Ancestry is the site for you!

Huia.

I know it is not funny Huia, but it is, and I often get the giggles on Ancestry with some of the connections.

Thing is even if you let them know they are wrong and you have 20 sources to confirm your research they will still tell you, you are wrong, even though they have not ever bothered getting a certificate. So and so gave them the information from their tree, so therefore it is correct.

Some people are nice and I share information with people that are, I hope, genuine. I have also made some great contacts that are actually interested in the correct information, but they are also a rare breed.

Gail

Huia and Gran

This is why I don't open my tree, or have a public tree on ancestry.

I will send anyone who has established that there is a real connection with a part or all of my tree all the information that I have .................... but only after we have established that connection via many emails!

But I have to admit that they don't get the spouses' family line(s) for the married-ins ........ I've done some of those, but not all, and I haven't always been as careful with the record-keeping for them. It's just been for my own interest .......................... so I won't pass on data that I cannot say is absolutely correct.



sylvia

Someone on ancestry has hijacked my whole tree and claimed my g.grandmother as their ancestor who emigrated to the States (untrue) along with her family line back to 1625.
Even though I can show documentation even photo of her grave here in UK they still have my tree wrongly attached to theirs. I don't have my tree on Ancestry and am very careful who I show my tree to here, I need to build up a relationship of trust with that person first. I certainly wouldn't open my tree to someone with Robert's attitude. So Robert, leave GR if you are unhappy here, and let us get on with what is for most of us a fulfilling life time experience!

Sylvia, I didnt have a tree on Ancestry until I found all the trees with the errors.

Gran, I contacted a lot of people 3 yrs ago and many told me 'it must be a different Tui Mary Bettany'. Most of them claim to have a degree of some sort - presumably in innumeracy. A few weeks ago I contacted a lot of people again and about a dozen replied and have removed my sister and our parents from their trees. But a lot of people havent looked at their trees for over 6 months. They are probably like Robert, lose interest very quickly.

2 or 3 people have 'sources' for the birth of my sister in Ireland in 1725. The sources are a birth record for a Mary Dowling (not the same name as Tui Mary Bettany), and 'other trees' on Ancestry. I am afraid they do not convince me.

Huia.

Oh Huia, you did make me laugh "A degree in Innumeracy" that is just so good and brilliant.

Even I know (mind not much) Tui (a bird) is from New Zealand. Though mind you an Irish Tui may be very different. I also know NZ was first settled by Polynesians. Also know that 13 December 1642 it was again discovered by Abel Janszoon Tasman and not Captain Cook, who laid claim again in 1770 and way after 1725. I know you had adventurous ancestors but do not think they got to Ireland. Yes, I am very good at Maths so it was all easy to work out.

Please Huia can I please put your family on my tree, you have such pretty and unusual names.

A good investment for any genealogy expert or other, is a calculator.

Gail

I would like to add some comments but would hate to think I am offending anyone in any way as GR members seem to me to be a fantastic bunch and I have had help on numerous occasions, but…

Could some people just step back a little and allow others to conduct their hobby in the way they want to? Yes, geneology is a fantastic hobby and, being a newbie, I am enjoying it immensely but I don’t know how long the excitement will last for me. So, I’m reluctant to spend a lot of money on certificates, subscriptions etc for a hobby that I may well give up next week. My main objective when I started was to find out what the internet could do for me. The most personal thing I could think of to research was my family and that’s how I got going. I have found a lot of people along the way that have helped and made some good friends into the bargain. But, as for my tree, as everyone else seems to say – it’s MY tree, done to MY standards. OK, my standards may not be as high as some other peoples standards but it’s MINE. I wouldn’t make my tree public on Ancestry because I am aware enough that it may not be accurate but if people ask (politely) to see my tree on GR, they are welcome but I don’t encourage it. I prefer to verify information I have found by checking everything from two separate sources rather than take a total stranger’s findings but, at the end of the day, does it matter how I go about it? My other-half isn’t interested enough to want to spend weekends visiting churches or trawling through archives so that option isn’t really open to me. I know what a lot of you will be saying – ‘you can’t believe everything you read on the internet’ – no, but, again, does it matter? A lot of what you read on the internet can be believed and is very interesting. I have learnt things I wouldn’t have learnt if I hadn’t started this and that is the whole point, I think. So, if Robert wants to fast-track his tree and he goes down the wrong route (root?) isn’t that his business? Does that affect anyone else? But, like anything else on the internet, if you don’t want your information known to everyone, don’t put it on there. You have a choice.

Berverley makes some very valid points.

Some people are only interested in their direct ascendants. Others insist on having documentary proof, such as certificates for absolutely everything. Others research down every single branch they happen upon. Some are happy to share everything, others want to keep it all to themselves.

I don't necessarily hold with all Robert's views, but surely there can be some middle ground.

Over 200 members on this site can access my tree. They are welcome to use as little or as much information they wish. It is up to them to check that it is accurate. I don't give access to anyone, first they must show that they have a genuine interest, by proving their connection. In my experience, very few have ever attempted to copy huge chunks. Most are only interested in their own little bit.

It doesn't matter what your approach is, as long as you enjoy what you are doing. However, if you don't like the idea of others making use of information in your tree, then don't put it on the internet.

I also agree with a lot of what Beverley says and I started my tree using just GR and the internet. I soon got hooked and joined Ancestry and bought certificates etc. I have also started other hobbies that cost me money and that I lost interest in after a few weeks, so yes I see both sides.

I do give access to some people but I only 100% verify with certs my direct lines. The side ways moves I do the very best I can and I always make this clear to people asking me for information.

Basically my message to Robert is not to give up on GR, for less than ten pounds a year it has just got to be worth re joining.

Wendy x

I have tree's on both Ancestry and Genes and they are both invaluable in different ways
My tree on Ancestry is private and has been for some time now, ever since I found a tree that had placed the wife and children of one man with his cousin. I wrote to the tree owner and (very) politely pointed out the error and offered the paperwork to back up my statement...that consisted of the bmd's for both cousins, their wives, children, siblings, parents, aunts and uncles. The tree owner wrote back to me saying, that whilst she didn't have a single piece of paperwork for this family 5 other Ancestry members had the exact some infoirmation as her and I was the only one who was saying any different, therefore she was going to go with the majority.
Intrigued by this I looked into it....it turns out that one of the people had copied and pasted huge swathes of a tree that I had built....complete with spelling and grammatical errors.....then she passed it onto other people. I had long since abandoned that tree as I had realised there were errors on it...had any of these people had the decency to get in touch with me I would have pointed out my mistakes, and would have willingly passed on some of the 25 thousand plus Scottish bmd's that I hold. Instead I just made my trees "private" so now people have to contact me before they swipe my tree.....which has had benefits for me as when my tree was public no one ever contacted me to share information....after it went private I started getting contacts almost every day.
Genes is brilliant for contacts....I don't have to go looking for them I just sit at home and every fortnight I get a list of people who have the same people on their tree as me....and who they are so I can decide if I want to get in touch......if Ancestry was ever to offer this service then I might consider not renewing my Genes subscription, but until then I will continue paying for both

Beverely

There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing all your research on the itnernet


I live in Canada, and so the ONLY way I can do any research is via the internet. I do the best I can to get accurate information, and I back up eveyrhting I can with all the certificates that I can afford.


Nor am I saying that you or anyone else must do their research the way I do it.


What I am saying is that it is no-one's RIGHT to view my tree whenever and wherever they want to.

It is MY prerogative to keep it private, and to only share parts of it with people after I have established that there is a connection.


After all, would you like it to be passed around the world from tree to tree that you are the offspring of an illegal relationship between your mother and her son????

If you read back, that basically is what has happened to me ............... and I have very little chance of correcting it.


The fact that it was my very own second cousin who made that error just makes the whole thing worse. Part of the problem of course is that his mother and father cut their family off from the rest of us more than 60 years ago .......... and he apparently depended on his aged father's memory for current day relationships.

That he then used that on his ONS name group is a whole other aspect.


It is in fact Robert who is saying that we all must do as he says, and have all our trees fully available for everyone ..... which basically means I think that he hates the idea if having to contact people and expos how the trees are related.




sylvia

Jan from Jarrow (sorry, not sure how to reverse letters), the thing with Ancestry is that as soon as somebody puts something new on a tree the site uses it as a 'hint' and other people can then click on 'add hint' without even bothering to look at it to see if it applies to their tree or is correct. The more people who do that, the more it becomes reinforced as the 'hint'. When someone else puts the correct info into their tree it is not used as a hint as 'the majority' is the hint. If I can put up 200 plus trees with John Downing b 1723 having as a spouse Medusa Snakehead it might become the hint instead of my sister as spouse, assuming that 100 other people have not in the meantime clicked on the current hint. At least with GR's system of Hot Matches we can decide whether or not it is likely to belong in our tree, and contact the owner to confirm or otherwise. But then, I suppose there might be some people on GR who just add things they find in Hot Matches, but it seems to me that most people on GR know a bit more about building a tree than taking such an 'easy' way out, and they want to have an accurate tree, not a make-believe one that it 'not worth the paper it is written on'.

Huia.

Sylvia in Canada

I didn't get chance to read your previous message before I posted my comment but, you are right, your tree is yours alone and if you chose to keep it private then it should remain private. I was not saying Robert was correct in his way of thinking because I don't actually believe he is. I think the GR system works better than Ancestry because you have that choice to stay private or allow access if you want to. If you chose to allow access to everybody then, sorry but you pay the price for that if it goes wrong. By the sounds of things, it wasn't your fault but someone malicious trying to damage you personally and that is a totally different issue. All I was trying to say was that our research means something different to everybody and there should be no 'rules' as such except to enjoy a very enjoyable hobby but keeping safe at the same time.