General Chat

Sue
They are actually told that too, but for writing it out they are required to do the 'crossing out' method.

* wonder what I'll learn with the tinies next week?*

Gwyn

*bangs head against wall* well they may just as well subtract the figure rounded up and add back the units:

138 -20 +1

lololol

Sue x

Some interesting replies, .. Thanks.

Supersleuth
My children are all adults and grandson is in secondary school, but I know the local school where I volunteer has held maths events for parents.

I first realised I was behind the times with maths, when I saw alot of crossing out when the older primary children were subtracting.
eg. When taking 19 away from 138.

In my old days we would do alot of 'borrowing and paying back', which has no mathematical logic, but it's the way we were taught, so I still work things that way....except in school.
Now, to take 9 from 8, they would break down the 3 ( value 30) and cross it out and replace it with a 2, putting the extra 10 with the 8, to make 18.Now they can take 9 away from 18.
..and so on.

Gwyn

Gwyn

Does you child go to an LEA School in Kent? I am sure they would run a maths workshop if the parents asked.

Very good Darklord.

Perhaps the school that sent letters home discouraging parents from helping their children should consider inviting the parents in to maths workshops. Hard enough to get parental support ....... if parents are willing to try they should be shown the current method - so that they are following the same route. It would only take one evening of their time.

Hi All

Hope the Chancellor is looking at this maths thread. He cannot get anything to add up.


DL

Strange that Joan mentioned Scotland.

One of my teachers sent a letter to Mum telling her not to help us with our maths/arithmetic homework because Mum is scottish. Apparently the division method was different

Was there really any difference back in the late 1950's

I have struggled with maths at school .......got to degree level mathematics ...... and had to forget everything to get my head around it!

Subtraction is done like this:

Never swap the numbers around. Leave them in the same order.
Only partition one number:

34 - 15
34 - (10, 5)
34 - 10 = 24
24 - 5 = 19

Your're right - it is a much more long winded way to do it but easier and more likely to be correct:

I'm with you, Gwyn!
When she was 6, my grand daughter was using a line to add up and take away and was very confused.
My ex (who had just got a Maths degree) couldn't understand it either!! The poor wee thing had to try to explain it to us 'old fogeys' - it obviously helped her - her favourite lesson now (she's nearly 8) is maths!!!

It's almost like they're learning mental arithmetic on paper!

Supersleuth, now that does confuse me because they will have to add the figures five times and from left to right!

There are some advantages to being decrepid...lol

Sue x

Number lines are used at my childrens school at this age. Then they move on to partioning:

They tend to break it down in to tens and units

30 + 10 = 40
4 + 5 = 9

40 + 9 = 49

My children have developed fantastic mental arithmetic making it easy to add and subtract large sums but it meant I had to relearn the basics!

It is a completely different way .... but better when you get the hang of it.

4578 + 8888 =

4000 + 8000 = 12000
500 + 800 = 1300
70 + 80 = 150
8 + 8 = 16
= 13466

google: tes.co.uk and woodlands primary school for great resources and fun games.

also: primaryresources.co.uk

Ha ha Daff I was having my senile nap so kicking my crutch was a waste of effort...lmao

As long as the children don't get their little mitts on a calculator I don't really care how they arrive at the right answer, they are the bane of my life when it comes to simple maths.

*pulls Daff's tufts*

mwaaaahhh

Sue x

*kicks crutch out of reach*

No... no orchard, wmsl.... started off with counting stairs and steps when they were little, then one apple two apples how many are left..... then with the buttons and bits of apples, and jelly tots as.... how many have we got, count them... then share them.... or how many does one pile of three, and one pile of 4 make.... they were always a little bit ahead at maths, until school totally took over when they were about 8, and I could no longer compete, lolol But then the others caught up!

Son number two is an Aerospace systems engineer in charge of a design and modification team, so practical maths suited him, lol.....

I am sure I never started with tens and units until I was 7.... and the same with the boys... until then it was pretty much a visual, practical concept, even at school... using an abacus, as well as images of a quantity of red trucks, say, and a number beside it... then a quantity of blue trucks etc...... not explaining this very well, am I? wmsl

I know what I mean, lol...... and it is the age of understanding... 5/6 is visual and practical.... 7 is roughly when the understanding of tens and units kicked into the education system, as I recall! wmsl!

Love

Daff xxxx

Eh? that would confuse me....lol mind you it doesn't take much!

Daff do you have an orchard? I could never understand how a child would relate a pile of anything to a number! The child would have to recount each pile in order to appreciate how many wotsits were in the pile. Whereas an understanding of tens and units (and later hundreds) means an immediate appreciation of how large a 'number' is.

Yes, I am old fashioned...lol

Sue

I'm with you both really.... oh Lol..and Lynda
I agree that the symbols mean little if children can't understand the concept of number by handling real objects.

Perhaps 6 or 7 would be a better age...

Anyway, ...what they do now is add together the 3 and 1 ( making 4, which they have to understand is 40, not 4, THEN add the units.

I'm having to re learn when I go in to help !

Gwyn

wmsl @ Lynda....

Lol Gwyn.... I wouldn't, not at 5 or 6... I would be using counters, apples or similar.... with my two it was jelly tots and cadbury's buttons...

so that the would add and take away small things, proper real world items, with a visual result. But would add the numbers alongside so that they gradually learned the written numerical association.

Love

Daff xxxx

ps, and with end result no more than 10, lol

Hello Gwyn, I'd still use tens and units, place one number below the other and add (using carry over and up if the units exceed 9).

Sue x

I wonder how many parents here are confused ( or confuse? ) when helping their children with primary school Maths.

eg.
How would you work out 34 + 15

ie. what would be your 1st step, when explaining to a youngster of 5 or 6.?


Gwyn