General Chat

Oh Janey, I got so totally engrossed when I found mine,
Corwall Robrough and his brother nothing more than little lads, paying apprentices on HMS Edgar when it caught fire and sank in minutes in 1711. 800 souls lost. not far from land .[ a swimable distance]

I found the shipwreck site in the Solent , for you that's off the Isle of Wight, near enough for it to be seen off Spithead.
Fully laden with 70 canons and gunpowder off to fight the French.
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?16789

Then I found the Victorians who were exploring the wreck site with their newly invented diving suits , there was SO much information , just by googling.

The politics at the time , no less corrupt than today, and the devastation of the family losing 2 sons all made a fascinating chunk of research.

I should imagine that, in times gone by, when people accidentally fell into water, their clothes wouldn't have helped them! Heavy dresses worn by the women and woollen jackets worn by the men would have pulled them down.
I could swim before I could talk - then at about 3, I saw something that put me off water for years.
It's a bit embarassing now, but at 4 it seemed logical.
We lived in Malta. I saw a girl jump into the water - and she had half an arm missing. For some reason I equated this loss of a lower arm with the sea! What is totally illogical is that I knew this girl and hadn't realised before that she didn't have a lower right arm!! I developed a bit of a phobia about water.
Soon after we moved to the Noth of Scotland - not an area condusive to swimming in the sea - so I didn't, and sort of lost the ability.
I can still sort of swim (ie not drown!) but apparently without the confidence I used to have.
Both my daughters can swim like fish,thanks to my ex taking them from about 6 months of age. I refused to go, in case my phobia was transferred.

My uncle drowned in the river Tay....He was an excellent swimmer but got cramp.

You had a couple of wars, Napoleonic and Crimean, which could have accounted for some.

Also swine fever, floods, TB, and other diseases associated with that era.

Well, sadly, they weren't anybody's ancestors, though, drowning while still girls. Another of those leafless twigs on the family tree.

With my family from the non-coastal areas of Cornwall, in mining communities, my twig children were more likely lost to the endemic tuberculosis.

I do wonder about families like my extinct Rushlands, who seemed to produce boys in the 1700s, then suddenly a generation of girls (two boys who did die young) at the beginning of the 1800s, and poof the name was gone. Where did all the boys go? I don't know what causes of death would have been common in Lincolnshire!

I spent a lot of time in my childhood at the pool and beach but I am not a strong swimmer. I could swim enough to save myself however water over my head panics me into terror. I have not been swimming, apart from a paddle and a sit down on the edge of the water, for about thirty or more years.

The following story is taken from the Trove newspapers digitally copied (or whatever it's called). I have corrected the text; a task which can be done by anyone with plenty of time on their hands and a good grasp of spelling. The girls who drowned were my OHs ancestors.



Following is an article taken from the Clarence and Richmond Examiner newspaper of 28th December 1861.



Drowning of two Sisters, while Bathing in the Clarence River.-On Saturday last, as some parties were bathing, a sad accident occurred, by which, two sisters, Susannah and Harriet Wright, lost their lives, The following is a report of the evidence taken at the magisterial enquiry held before Mr. A. Lardner, J.P., on Sunday last.-Mary Ann Cassidy being duly sworn, de- posed : On Saturday, about eight a.m., she was bathing in the river with a younger sister of the deceased girls, when they, with a woman named Sarah Smith, joined them ; they were all bathing on a sunken rock, with deep water around it ; Harriet Wright went out too far, and she went after her ; she walked off the rock into deep water, catching hold of her as she went over; she clung to her, and she succeeded in getting her against the rock, when Susannah also took hold of her round the neck; after a struggle she felt them both loose their hold of her, and she swam ashore ; she immediately gave an alarm to their parents, who were living near, but did not see them again until their bodies were recovered several hours afterwards; deceased girls could not swim ; she could have saved Harriett if Susannah had not caught hold of her. Sarah Smith was intoxicated, but did not interfere with the deceased girls. William John O'Neil deposed: He lived (?) with Mr. Henry Wright; on Saturday morning he was chipping corn near tho river; he heard Annie Wright calling for her mother, and saying, " O. Susan and Harriet "; he ran down to the river and dived several times, but could not find the bodies of the girls; Mary Cassidy gave the alarm as she ran towards Wnght's house ; Sarah Smith was intoxicated ; he asked her if she had done it, and sho denied it in most offensive terms ; he then got Mr. Bligh's boat, and assisted that gentleman to eearch for the bodies ; they found tho body of Harriett about three hours after the accident, and Susannah two hours later ; both bodies were found near the spot where they were bathing ; Susannah is aged fifteen years, and Harriett thirteen years, Richard Bligh deposed : He lived at Riverstone, about a mile from Wright's ; about eight a.m. on Saturday, the witness O'Neil came to his house, and told him that Wright's two daughters had just been drowned ; he got some drags made and proceeded to the spot with his boat; himself, O'Neil and a servant of his named Elsbach searched for the bodies; he saw O'Neil find the body of Harriet Wright, and about two hours afterwards he re- covered the body of Susannah Wright; there were no marks of violence on either of the bodies ; he had no doubt death was caused by drowning. The finding of the magistrate was, that the deceased girls, Susannah and Harriet Wright, died from drowning in the river Clarence, on the 28th December, and that the drowning was accidentally caused,-Clarence and Richmond Examiner.

There was more to this tragedy. The father Henry James Wright drowned himself in 1862 about a week after the girls died.

Yes leisure gives us time to learn to swim ..... Also as far as any fall into water its not just the splash but how you hit the water and some of those canals were less than 3 or 4 foot deep ..... hitting submeged objects was a real hazzard

Falling into a lock was often dome when operating it and leggers ... those who walked boats through those dark , and damp tunnels .... would of ten slip


Lots of interesting stories ... i personaly owe my life twice over to one of my brother in laws who got me out at sea and in a swimming pool where some idiot thought it would be fun to push me in

These day my extra natural boyancy aid may help :)

I think I'm in no danger on both counts there. I'll be sure to warn No.1, although I imagine he's in the clear too!

The only superstition that I can think of off-hand Janey, relating to May, are: do not get married in May, or wash blankets
;-)

Mary, My Mum knitted me a swimsuit when I was about 4 or 5 and it had the same result. Even at that age I remember the embarrassment

I just realized I missed wisechild's post on page 1 -- historical trends really are interesting. For lifespan in general, you can see it on some FreeBMD searches -- for deaths for a particular name, you can see the number of people over 40 and the number of babies aged 0 rising and falling, respectively, as time goes on.

Diane, thank you!

MaxiMary, I was going to say that too -- there's a lot of water here even for those of us not near a real "coast".

And I wasn't really thinking, was I, about the reasons why people didn't swim in the 19th century - duh! Yes, adults, especially women of course, would have had to be in virtual burqas to do it. I'll bet a lot of kids played in various waters wearing a lot less, though, and many without swimming abilities.

Sharron ... any superstitions about not washing on May 17? No.1 has been doing it in our little portable in the kitchen and now that I've moved my office into the back room of the house the noise is making me crazy ... although not as bad as vacuuming. Nature and I just abhor a vacuum.

Not washing on New Years Day is a travellers superstition. I was told it by a showman. If you should do so you stand the risk of washing away a member of you family.

I spent summer holidays by the sea in Amroth, before we emigrated to Canada. Did not learn to swim at the sea though. Once in Canada, my parents were told that, with the incredible amount of water across Canada, hundreds of lakes and oceans on both coasts, it was imperative that childrenin Canada were taught to swim. I hated swimming lessons, probably because I was the fat kid in the class and didn't want to be seen in a bathing suit, never became a strong swimmer, but ensured that all my own children were taught to swim - lessons were wasted on my one daughter who spent every lesson hding under a towel on the pool deck LOL. Once she was diagnosed with learning disabilities, therapy was suggested and she finally loved being in the very warm therapy pool. My grandchildren also receive lessons each summer, except for one who has it as part of his school curriculum.
Seems to me that one of the reasons many elderly people couldn't swim, was the more modest way of dressing in the early 20th century - they didn't learn as children and as adults were reluctant to strip down in public! Brings to mind a family chuckle - my mother, born 1905 used to tell a story about her having knitted a swim suit, she became a Ranger leader in the 1920's and to teach knitting to each girl in her group, they all knitted a swim suit and took them with them when they went to a Guide camp by the sea. At this point she always broke into fits of laughter as the combination oif seawater and knitted suits did not mesh effectively, and the entire group ran screaming from the beach with their lovely suits stretched to their knees,by the water. Would have been a camera moment. All her photos of Guide & Ranger activities have now gone to the historical collection of the Girl Guides.
Mary :-)

You very kindly helped me out with my mackenzie line and since your last post I found out that my G Grannies brother Roderick drowned in the Thames in 1893.
I am obssesed about my children learining to swim and all started/will start lessons at age 5, we are lucky enough to live by the sea and for me its one of lifes essential skills.

I think that must be the death I was thinking of, AnninGlos.

The important thing, to my mind, isn't being a "strong swimmer" (I know I'm not a *fast* or remotely elegant swimmer), it's being able to stay afloat. Some good treading water and dog-paddling (I'm a leisurely side-stroker) will do for that.

AuntyS has posted a coroner's report of a 19th century drowning in Australia in her Dixon thread -- I've said she should post it here.

I actually hadn't expected to see so many people reply that they knew of drownings among their own ancestors and their families!

We recently had a young man found drowned in the Glos/Sharpness canal. He was last seen heading along the tow path after leaving a night club, he leaves a young son, tragic. Doesn't seem to have been suicide so he must have slipped in. Mind you we have a lot of drowning suicides in this area, comes from having both the canal and the river Severn.

We had a few swimming lessonds in school but not consistant and not enough to learn. I grew up within about 5 miles of the sea and spent a lot of time in the sea, but never really learned to swim. My parents could hardly swim so never taught me. I taught myself in a pool when I was 50. I am not a strong swimmer and don't by choice go out of my depth but I could survive if there were no strong currents or waves. Both our children and all five of our grandchildren are good swimmers, even the 8 year old.

I'm afraid I can't swim but my children can :D

My father's great-uncle drowned, in 1904. I'm not sure why - he was a gardener - and, although the coroner recorded a verdict of accidental death, the family always said he was pushed. :O

My father's great-grandfather didn't drown, but he still came by a 'death by water' when he caught typhoid from a pond :-(

Lastly, still with my father's ancestors, his great-great grandmother's great niece :S went missing from the vicarage where she worked, and turned up about six weeks later drowned :-(

All in all this is possibly why, for at least the last century, few women in dad's family will wash clothes on January 1

Wash clothes on New Year's day
Wash somebody's life away

Um ... and fathers, Janet. ;)

It has been a problem in my neighbourhood too. The family across the street, whose daughter was my little chum for several years before she got too old to hang out at my house with her friend doing crafts and watching Hayley Mills movies -- I regularly screeched at the parents about the 2-yr-old on the street. I think the village in China just didn't have traffic, so there was no need to instil road safety.

It didn't occur to me, when numerous of the little new Canadian neighbour kids were hanging around my house, to wonder about their water safety status.

Just thinking about road safety ... I know of only one little kid in my neighbourhood killed by a car, in 25 years. Strangest thing ... I was talking to someone about our traffic problems one day and they mentioned that a child had been killed four blocks away by the grocery store -- the shortest path to the store was to cross the street at the middle of the block on a fairly busy street, and no one didn't do that, kids included.

My heart sank. Somehow, I just knew it was Brittany. The waifish little blonde girl from down the block who with her adopted brother had latched onto my friend next door, who also worked at home during the day -- always happy, and I knew well fed and with loving if not genius parents ... but just a kind of doomed air about her. I looked into it, and yes, it was Brittany.