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Without descending to the 'give them a kick....."

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


terryj Report 2 Mar 2013 19:37

if you look on the goverments job site there is a lack of jobs for people who do not have a skill
the days of "cannon fodder" jobs seem to be over
general machinest ,fettler, spot welder etc
so unless the kids can get a saleable skill they have no hope of a future

i dont think we as a country will move on untill as one of my lecturers said they realise they cant run a country on delivering pizza


GinN Report 2 Mar 2013 18:16

My daughter was bright at school, gathered 10 o levels of good grades, started 6th form with enthusiasm - then decided she just wanted to have kids, so went ahead down that route!
She's now 35, with 3 kids, and has finally woken up. She did a founation course with the Open University, which enabled her to get onto a midwifery degree course. She is now second year and loves it!
Sometimes they just have to find their own way in their own time.


vera2010 Report 2 Mar 2013 18:15

My 83 year old brother remarked recently on how fantastic were the Labourers in the shipyard where he worked and added that not everyone can be a skilled worker or as I add a professional. But that was then. Where are the employers who would teach a youngster a skill and create jobs in an environment that labour would also be required. There are few. Gone are the shipyards, the engineering companies, clothes manufacturing. The list goes on.

I think numerous Governments had no choice but to get these youngsters off the street and into some sort of work environment.

If the disruptive youngsters are not in college, where would they be I wonder.

Its a very sad situation and I don't know the answer. I would on balance stick with what we've got in the hope that the country can turn itself around and provide for our youngsters but I do not hold out much hope.



Nyx Report 2 Mar 2013 17:50

Popping in and out today, but thanks for replies which I shall catch up with properly, absolutely agree with you Errol on the EMA it would have been a huge help for us.


eRRolSheep Report 2 Mar 2013 17:43

AnninGlos - I had to smile at your last comment - do they only stack the bottom shelves? :-D


AnninGlos Report 2 Mar 2013 17:40

Not only are apprenticeships a good way forward for young people they are also good for employers. Without apprenticeships we don't get car mechanics, plumbers, qualified electricians, decorators. All worthy jobs, all necessary.

In gloucester the local paper set about encouraging local employers to take on apprentices which has happened in quite a large way. I have seen several success stories of youngsters who have served an apprenticeship and then been taken on by the firm. I don't know what 'carrot' was waved at employers but something worked.

I do agree with Sue (Supercrutch) about Grammar schools, secondary modern/technical schools. Or maybe some sort of version of this, maybe comprehensives should be part technical school with the emphasis on practical skills rather than achedemic.

I am not sure if they do it, but do the large stores, supermarkets take on youngsters with a view to starting at the bottom and working up? Sort of retail apprenticeships which even start as low as shelf stacking.


eRRolSheep Report 2 Mar 2013 17:39

Supercrutch I agree with your point wholeheartedly re grammar schools etc.

A large problem is disengagement and disaffection plus I find the scrapping of EMA in England (but not the rest of the UK!) absolutely ridiculous.


BrendafromWales Report 2 Mar 2013 16:48

Agree with most on here.
Why not go along as it used to be?
Not everyone is University material. Apprenticeships have been neglected

Practical skills are very necessary to do a lot of jobs...
It's not all academic and theory.
My dad did 7 years night school as well as working a full those days Sat morning as 40 hr week then.He became a very accomplished carpenter as was his father.
They have a lot of subjects these days in Uni...some very obscure ones and then a lot of students can't get jobs that use their degrees.

That's my opinion anyway!


OneFootInTheGrave Report 2 Mar 2013 13:07

A lot of the problems in further education go back to the late 1970's when popping young people into further education became a convenient way to reduce unemployment levels and every government since then has used this ploy :-|

Using young people like this so as to be able to say they have reduced unemployment, and also popping them into dead end jobs like shelf-stacking is not only wrong it is demoralising :-|

What young people need is to be shown that they have a purpose in life and sound guidance and assistance to enable them to achieve their goals & full potential. In my youth, The Cubs, The Scouts, The Brownies, The Guides, The various Cadet Forces, and other youth organisations all helped to achieve this, as did "proper apprenticeships." and "proper careers advice."

Governments of all colours spend a fortune, for a better phrase, on programmes and schemes to prove this ideological policy or that ideological policy is working. If they only invested half of that in funding on, upgrading youth services, providing "proper career advice," and "proper apprenticeships" it would go a long way to changing young peoples lives and attitudes.

Finally, get rid of this nanny state approach that says you can't do the things your parents used to enjoy doing when they were growing up, it was being allowed to grow up and do the things that young people did that developed their characters - for goodness sake what jobsworth decided playing conkers was dangerous ;-)


FootieAngel Report 2 Mar 2013 12:40

All 3 of mine are at the crossroads - M has finished college and got his childcare qualification goes to countless interviews to be told his Autism is a barrier and he will have to overcome certain aspects to be employed in that are, so has started down a seemingly continuous path of training in everything and anything to keep him motivated. J is deciding on Unis and courses and feeling a little downhearted that even people she knows with degrees are not getting the jobs they want. As for G she has to stay on till she is 18 and yet has no drive or ambition and would much rather stay home and have babies. I really don't know what incentives can be given to any of them. I tell J to be happy in her choice and give her best. To M I just hope some scheme will come around for him and it will get him into a routine he will be happy with. As for G who knows its not that she is lazy she just sees her place as being at home doing chores and rearing children. Good thought provoking thread.


Nyx Report 2 Mar 2013 12:28

I like "Radical" Sharron :-D :-D


Sharron Report 2 Mar 2013 12:24

My grandfather started work at seven and he became an excellent shepherd although he was forced into school for a while when he was eleven.

I wonder if an alternative way of learning would be for children to be learning work skills when they are young and want to be doing with classroom education at a later time or when it suited them best.

Different children and,indeed,adults,have different things to deal with in ther lives at different times.My school years were overwhelmed by having the mad woman at home.

Maybe it should be compulsory to fit in the ten years of academic education at some point before you are forty but at a time that is most suitable for your own purposes. That way classrooms would not be age specific and different ages would contribute different qualities.

Radical eh?


ChrisofWessex Report 2 Mar 2013 12:02

Agree with Supercrutch


supercrutch Report 1 Mar 2013 21:37

I am going to repeat myself for the nth time..................there was nothing wrong with Grammar Schools and Secondary Modern/Technical Colleges.

Education to suit all without dumbing down or forcing children to take chemistry when they would rather be learning a skill.


~Lynda~ Report 1 Mar 2013 21:37

My son only liked school to play football, he was bright, but really didn't like the learning bit, but he had a Saturday job at 15, and was working on days off from school when he was in the, as it was called then the sixth form.

He spoke too much in lessons, no idea who he gets that from :-0 I'm sure if he was allowed, he could of left school at 14 and made his way in life, as he has done now, he has his own business, and works very hard.

I'm very proud of both my children, my other child loved school, and learning, yet they have both done well in life, so not everything is about further education, some people want more hands on jobs, which don't need so much classroom education, not everyone loves books, so I think more money should be put into apprenticeships, as it used to be.

By the way I'd never say that the youth are all wasters, the majority are fantastic, and those that aren't often have a reason not be.


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Mar 2013 20:56

Most 16 year olds wouldn't be capable of setting up their own businesses, and even if they were, there is the problem of not being able to sign contracts which would hold up in a court of law ( I think)

The Education system is geared to producing youngsters with bits of paper qualifications, which more often than not they see as irrelevant.

If funding could be diverted to existing companies/tradesmen to take on Apprentices all well and good. The employer could complete a tick sheet to say that the apprentice has learnt the various skills rather than send them off to college to take yet more exams.

Potential small employers also need to have the work conditions requirements relaxed - not the safety aspect obviously, but for those whose business premises/work shop are from their own home. A friend's OH is a carpenter/joiner. He thought it a good idea to take one on, but he would have had to provide separate toilet and restroom facilities, rather then popping into the house.


Nyx Report 1 Mar 2013 20:51

LOL Lynda well he certainly has his own views on things, I can't think where he gets it from.... but I reckon he'd have to either start his own religion ( or offshoot at least) or political party...he's not easily brow beaten into the 'accepted' view on anything so the the bishop/chief whip or whoever would have a hard time of it :-D


~Lynda~ Report 1 Mar 2013 20:43

I reckon you should persuade D to become a political vicar Rose :-D


Nyx Report 1 Mar 2013 20:41

PS, I thought perhaps a non-political, no religious discussion would make a change. :-)


Nyx Report 1 Mar 2013 20:40

How do you think todays youngsters can be helped into work? Not just from the point of there actually being jobs for them, but in terms of encouragement or incentives after age 16?

It's interesting to me when D tells me about college, who works hard, who doesn't, but largely how little concentration some of his peers are capable of, given that they are used to being in a classroom setting, they are disruptive in the class ( at tech college so 17-18 yr olds mostly) , and the tutors really have to struggle to give those who do want to work a good atmosphere to do it in.

Should the emphasis be away from trying to get everyone into further education, if they really don't want to be there? I get the impression some are only there because their parents say 'go or else we lose child benefit/ tax credits' so you have the situation where the tutors and other students are being disadvantaged and youngsters are just 'turning up' ( and often not even that).

Would it be better to put the money that is inevitably being spent on students who don't want to be there , into funding more apprenticeships? ( and payng a decent wage for same). Or more help with setting up their own business perhaps?

Suggestions? Insights? thoughts? but please, no generalisations of the 'all youth are wasters' type :-D