General Chat

I can understand why they have chosen to target HGV drivers. Any accident involving a big heavy vehicle is likely to cause more damage and injury than one just involving cars.

OH gets enraged by the "rolling roadblocks" HGVs create by overtaking when only travelling sightly faster than the vehicle they are trying to pass. This quickly causes holdups all the way down the line. Fortunately some roads now have signs banning lorries from overtaking. It's just a shame that some drivers ignore them. I hope the police are sitting in wait in such places to catch them.

We've only ever been involved in one accident on a motorway and it was very frightening.We were in the middle lane travelling at around 70 mph when a few hundred yards ahead an HGV pulled out in front of the line causing the "leader" to have to brake very sharply and thus the rest of us down the line. All would have been well, despite this HGV driver's stupidity, were it not for another idiot in an HGV a few cars back who was driving too close and ploughed into the car in front of him causing a domino effect, pushing it into the car in front etc. We were lucky in that the car behind us only just clipped us but other cars further back were badly damaged.

The police arrived very quickly to sort it out and the driver of the HGV at the back was going to be charged (they assured us) but the idiot driver who was almost as much to blame had driven off into the sunset.

The police got their tape measures out and all the cars had obviously been being driven at a safe stopping distance and all would have been well if the battering ram of an HGV had been driving at a safe distance as well.

It took ages to sort out the insurance because the HGV driver's insurance company tried to force the drivers to claim from the car behind. In the end they had to pay for all the damage to all the vehicles because the driver was prosecuted and lost his licence.

Lorries are great big things and we tend not to notice the majority that are being driven safely but when they are being driven dangerously they are very scary things and cause a lot of damage when there's an accident.

Guinevere, We can all quote specific incidents/accidents, I could write a book on the number Ive witnessed over the years involving both HGV's and cars,

HGV's involved in accidents will and do cause more damage that is not disputed but stupidity is not driver type specific, so why target the minority,

As a professional driver I myself have had to anticipate stupidity from other road users and take evasive action to avoid an accident on nearly a daily basis and more often than not its because of the actions of a car driver

If your OH gets enraged whilst driving for any reason then he needs to take a step back pull over and take the time to calm down, Enraged drivers are a danger to all road users

Roy

Sure, I flash them in BUT if they had enough mirrors then that would not be necessary. It is the lack of nearside mirrors that causes so many incidents with push bikes, mopeds and so on.

I live not so far from a DVLA testing stop (equipped with a weighbridge) where they regularly pull in (at random) HGVs. Sometimes as many as a half have defects bad enough to cause an immediate stop notice - mainly tyres.

Again mucking about with the time recording system, false declaration of load, gross overweight are common issues. And all this without any bad driving as such .... Yes, the problems are a lot worse with foreign registered trucks. Plenty of these do not even have an HGV licence / insurance valid for the UK!

It is not in the interests of law abiding UK haulage firms and their drivers to stand in solidarity with trucking as it is in the UK today. The truth of it is that there is a massive problem and the accident statistics are one part of it.

Aside from the contravention of traffic and driving laws the other aspects are illegal immigration and carrying all manner of illegal loads. I have a rellie who works for the boys in blue in Essex. Among other things they have picked up on HGVs are: fake goods of all kinds, fake booze, fake cigarettes, stolen metal, illegal immigrants, stolen goods, stolen luxury cars, lethal weapons. Of course they target HGVs!

Another part of the problem is that of firms, UK and foreign, which are ignoring and bending the rules are slowly but surely driving the UK firms out of business and their drivers out of work. Did I mention the thriving trade in spurious parts including brake items ?

I am a chartered member of the Inst of Transport. No Sunday driver me.

The government is considering chucking "the book" at the industry from a high height and I cannot say I am much surprised.

Rollo, This thread is about the police targeting HGV "drivers".... and not about the police targeting the criminal element using haulage as a means

The criminal element you refer to is a serious problem and should not be put in the same category as "Haulage/logistics they are criminals pure and simple and no legitimate haulage company would risk doing any of the things you mention.

Roy

Edit, Flashing a lorry is and always was just good manors on the part of other drivers, nothing to do with a driver not knowing if he had cleared the vehicle he was overtaking, all drivers should no where the back end of their lorry/trailer is, indeed this is covered in the driving test when a driver has to reverse into a box and stop with the back of his vehicle/trailer in the marked area, as for not enough mirrors I doubt you have ever driven a HGV, They already have 5 plus my last lorry had 6, any more would just restrict the drivers view even more by adding more blind spots in other areas

Roy, even "enraged" my oh is safe driver. He knows better than to let idiots on the road have any effect on his driving.
I wish some lorry drivers showed half of his courtesy on the road.

Guinevere, As usual we will have to agree to disagree,

Roy

So they are targeting HGV drivers this month? Next month it will probably a different segment of vehicles, so don’t get too upset about it.
As I see it, car drivers who use mobiles, eat their lunch etc are easier to spot than a HGV driver in his high cab, at least not from car height.

No police force seems to be targeting only UK registered HGV vehicles. In other parts of the country, especially in the counties where there are Ports, the police in conjunction with the civil authorities do target large vehicles so that they can pick up foreign ones who may have defects that UK ones don’t. They can’t single them out for inspection as that would be discrimination. I applaud anything that is going to take defective vehicles or drivers who are breaking the UK law off the roads.

More cars than HGV are probably involved in accident. Statistically, what percentage of each are involved? There are more cars than HGV on the roads but it’s the HGV involved accidents who are more visible to the general public.

I loathe the HGV drivers who seem to play ‘tag’ when going up an incline. They are keen to keep their average speed (and associated fuel consumption) to an average 50mph, so you get one overtaking another at snails pace, pull in front of the HGV vehicle it was overtaking which then creeplingly overtakes the first.

HGV can be very intimidating to less confident motorway drivers who may have settled into the nearside line at a speed they are happy with. They are happy to plod along behind a HGV until another one looms up behind filling their rear view mirror. They can’t even see to overtake the lead vehicle even if they wanted to. Car sandwich!

Although HGV driver training does seem to have improved in recent years, you do still get some who indicate while pulling out to overtake rather indicating and waiting until the signal has been spotted by road users to give them time to react.

Are you now a retired HGV Roy if so it wont affect you.

My OH is still an HGV/ADR driver and said good.

a tale just before christmas,

a left drive truck driver left him cold,,,,,,on the passenger seat was a gas stove heating up a tin of beans,the driver was merrily toodling along at 30,,,40 then at 60 mph,,,,,,continential units dont have limiters,,,,,,and neither do loads of trucks owned by uk companies,,,,,,,,,he flashed the driver into a layby and gave him the riot act,,,,the poor man only understood a little english and ------Felixstow docks ,boat leave ,me need to book in Felixstow!!!.....

I dont doubt many will have heard in a days work in a truck stop or layby caravan whats going to be taking place and will drive at their best on the M62.......including car drivers.

One safe HGV driver is worth any disgruntlement for a while,

Most HGV drivers take pride in their driving and how they use the roads.a very few cause people to treat them with disdain.

They are the means for all you buy in a supermarket,store or shop ordinary men/women doing a days work.....

Not sure how you can disagree that my OH is a good driver, Roy, you have never driven with him.

A cop friend of ours who did a stint in traffic has said that some HGV drivers have a feeling of invincibility high up above the rest of us that can lead to them driving in a way that is dangerous to others.

Kay, Yes I hung up my license a couple of years ago due to ill health and as with your other half I would have said GOOD if the police had said they would be targeting "drivers" my problem is the targeting of just HGV's when the figures show that HGV's were only one part of the bigger problem.

It may not affect me now but I still take an interest in the industry and even keep myself up to date with what is happening within the industry today and i help on a couple of forums with help and advice on things like drivers hours and working time directive plus advice to drivers being threatened and bullied in to meeting deadlines by management.

Another thing that has not been said, although people have commented on continental drivers is that the haulage industry have not escaped the influx of eastern europeans and a large number are driving for UK companies, I no of 1 company who only employs eastern european drivers and 2 large companies that have a very large percentage of eastern Europeans driving for them,

I have a mate whose company employed 2 polish drivers both where involved in serious accidents within a 6 month period one was sacked and the other did a runner back home, 2 weeks after the second accident another polish lad turned up for interview for one of the vacancies and produced his license as part of the interview process, and later when they checked it it had the same driver number as one of the previous drivers so they informed the police

Roy

The police / DVLA do target HGVs. Often they work together.

The "criminal" trucks are not painted in stripes with a "SWAG" logo so how Roy can say they should only go for criminals and the others are OK heaven knows.

Back in the 1980s the govt had to fork out a fortune upgrading bridges all over the country for the EU 40 tonne weight limit. There is huge pressure from the EU to upgrade weight limits to 56 tonnes which would cause all sorts of problems. All the same many HGV drivers take all sorts of short cuts down unsuitable roads often leading to serious damage. Satnav is often blamed but is just the fall guy.

Apart from the damage to walls buildings and bridges HGVs are involved in a disproportionate amount of serious and fatal injury accidents. The leading category of victims from these accidents is truck drivers.

The idea of HGV drivers as "knights of the road" is a myth. Just try driving up the M20 from Dover into SE London early on a wet May Monday and you'll see for yourself.

As for supermarkets ... there is surely something daft about trucking so much stuff from "distribution depots" all over the country or blocking a suburban road with an artic. so as to drop off a small load to a neighbourhood grocery store.

Guinevere, I am not arguing with you, You said your OH gets enraged, I don't care how good a driver he is if he is gets enraged whilst driving then he is a danger to all road users and needs to take a step back pull over and take the time to calm down.

No one performs 100% any task involved whilst driving when they are enraged
"extreme anger"

Roy

Rollo, Can I remind you again about my OP, My OP was about the targeting of "drivers" based on the figures quoted on that stretch of the M62, If you want a debate about the Haulage industry overall that's fine, Start a thread and I will gladly contribute to that debate

Roy

Knights of the road,,,,my OH would shudder at the thought,,,,,,,


Most artic drivers go where they are sent,,,,,they dont have a choice if a supermarket is at the end of a little one way street.

keep all road users safe by any means legally possible,its the only way to go.

I exaggerated, Roy, hyperbole is common on chat boards. Also my OH is a mature adult not a toddler and is well able to drive safely when there are idiots on the road. The car would never leave the drive if we waited until the roads were free of stupidity.

Rollo........you could be right there about distribution centers, maybe if the good were left there which can be anything from doors to a car the customer could drive to them and pick up their own goods,

pity they did away with the canals and handcarts......

sending all goods by rail could be an answer,but then they need to be transported to the outlet,,,,,,,,, :-0 :-)

Guinevere, Thanks for clearing that up,

HGV drivers have for years now had to do regular in house driver assessments NOT all but in recent years a driver (CPC) Certificate of Professional Competence has been introduced as a compulsory measure to try and improve and reinforce good practice but is not looked upon favourably by a large majority of mainly older more experienced drivers, The main reasons are not because they don't see a need for such training but because first its training that No company is obliged to undertake part in but as its compulsory drivers are having to use holidays and pay for the course out of their own pocket which most think is wrong, The driver CPC involves a period of 35 hours of periodic training every five years that can be taken in stages with the minimum period being 7 hours although that can in some cases be split into two periods and is an attend course only so there is no pass or fail element, It has also become apparent that although their are several modules to this driver CPC a driver can take the same module every time and keep his CPC entitlement

My son recently needed 21 hours periodic training in order to get his currant job but could not get on the relevant course that covered the modules he had not covered so he did 3 days ADR training and that qualified him.

I think their is a case for all car drivers to do compulsory periodic driver training

Roy

Kay they tried that years ago,it did,nt work ,even Britsh Rail(As it was then )transported goods by road. also, one other thing, when they built the Motorways it was to keep HGVs off the A Roads,to give more freedom of use for cars. The M25 (London Orbital) was originally to keep HGV traffic out of London,Now its used more like a Rat Run and not for what it was intended for.

Off topic and my last post

Where shops/supermarkets are situated is a planning issue and not up to haulage companies and is more a logistics problem.

If only people where aware of the unnecessary miles their food travelled before it reached the supermarket shelf they would be mortified to think that we are all sorting out rubbish into different bins for collection buy the council in order to help protect the environment only to see the supermarkets continue their stupid practice of sending food from one end of the country to the other then back again to a distribution centre a stones throw away from where it originated from

Roy