General Chat

This thread is not about the pro's and con's of our membership of the European Union, it is a thread about what I see as weak leadership and chaos at the heart of government. If you want to debate our membership of the European Union - can I suggest that JohnLovesHorlicks thread - I want to be in Europe - would be a more appropriate thread ;-)

It has been reported that David Cameron has bowed to pressure from Tory rebels by guaranteeing in law his promise to hold an in out referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU before the end of 2017.

That seems like a form of bribery to me, as what he is saying is , vote for the Conservative Party at the next General Election and we will give you an in out referendum on the EU, but only after the election - will he won't he ;-)

This country is struggling to recover from one of the deepest recessions it has ever experienced, ordinary people are suffering, businesses are suffering, large areas of the country are suffering, yet the main issue on the political agenda is whether there should or should not be a referendum on Europe :-|

The Prime Minister, The Government, and all MP's should be concentrating on what is happening within our own borders, especially the needs of its ordinary working people, instead of pursuing their own ideological interests and those of their party. If they spent as much time and effort on getting the country back on its feet, as they do on Europe, the future for ordinary working people in this country might begin to look brighter.

But they do not do this, instead, conservative politicians are hell bent on destroying any chance their party has of winning the next election by their obsession with the issue of Europe. They must all have short memories as they appear to have forgotten what damage this internal wrangling over Europe did to John Major's premiership.

In my opinion, not only do we have a weak and dithering Prime Minister who has lost control of some of his ministers but also his backbenchers, we also have a weak government which is in chaos and have lost their way, and one, who for a better phrase are - fiddling while Rome burns :-|

In answer to your question - a firm yes.

Can't disagree with your analysis either.

Definitely "Yes" all we get are "Promises Promises" and no action. :-(

Which ever party had been asked to form a government after the last General Election was going to be handed a poisoned chalice purely because of the international financial situation.

The Conservative party are affiliated to the financial movers and shakers, and that are who are going to move us out of this recession. We must individually have realised that there were going to be hard times ahead and hoped and prayed that we wouldn’t personally be affected.

OK, so Cameron has made some very unpopular moves. The fact that he has since been swayed by his backbenchers or cabinet ministers does show that he is willing to accept that he is wrong and has tried to mitigate the effects of the original Bills and Regulations. Surely that is also Democracy?

As it’s doubtful that the Conservatives will get a clear majority next time round, and the Lib/Dem has been tainted by association, we’ll probably be landed with Labour who will also be scratching around for an alliance with minority parties.

Strikes me, they're behaving like spoilt public school boys.
They appear to have an idea, all shout 'Well done Camers,' or whoever, and don't think the idea, or it's impact, through.
They have no idea how the majority of the population live, have never gone further than the end of nannie's apron strings, but, through their schooling, have an unmoving belief of their (to their eyes, high) worth and capability.
They also seem to believe that the 'rest of us' have different needs, wants and aspiratins.
IDS in huge rent-free house, seems to think the 'poor' are a different race and don't have a need for an extra room for friends/relations to stay - why should we, we don't have weekend shooting paries?

Why are the unemployed unemployed? Surely daddy can find them a job in his firm. Daddy hasn't got a firm? Well, that shows there are generations of scroungers out there.

Not just weak, but thoughtless idiots with as much empathy as a chippendale chair.

We really do need a strong leader. I don't want to resurrect the Margaret Thatcher debate, but we really would benefit from someone of her ilk right now.

Hey Maggie, a set of Chippendale Chairs is worth much more than the combined set of MPs we have. :-D What we no doubt will have is the usual Claptrap of "I,m going to make an announcement in Parliament" thinking that will please the electorate.They never follow it through with anything realistic. :-(

I would also like some one of the MT type. I don't like Mr Cameron but having said that, probably no one could do any better.

Hamstrung by his coalition partners; by Europe and its directives; and top civil servants in the home office and the like who are dinosaurs. Every party these days has its factions., pulling in different ways.

Can it be that Blair; Brown; Cameron. Milliband and Clegge are all useless, or is it the system?

Happy days

I am convinced that David Cameron's nickname should be either "Spinning Top" or "Dizzy" because, depending which way the wind is blowing, he spins round and round one way for Nick Clegg and then he spins round and round the other way for his backbenchers ;-)

He would do well to remember that - You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time ;-)

I feel sorry for any leader who would try to get us out of this mess.

It is so difficult with a coalition....he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't ..all the different opinions.These days a lot of people won't listen and the media has a lot to answer for...

Not an enviable job to take on.

I thought DC had always said he intended to hold a referendum on our membership of the EU :-S

The fact that he now wants to demonstrate his intent by guaranteeing in law his promise to hold an in out referendum shows that his own party "tory rebels" don't believe him and so yes I would say this has weakened him as apposed to him being a weak leader,

Plus what Harry said

Roy

Once again I agree with Harry on this.........

I honestly think it is the system, and also that one of the fundamental problems with the politicians of today, is the rise of what I term the University Campus Politicians and Silver Spoon Politicians ;-)

I believe this is why many of today's politicians are completely out of touch with everyday life, as most of them have never had any experience of how ordinary working people live, have never done a days hard work, nor how difficult it can be to feed and clothe a family plus keep a roof over their head.

YES!!!!

Trouble with all the leaders, Cameron, Clegg and Milliband is that they are all clones of what they believe to be the perfect politician. They want to please everybody and it cannot be done. Show them a band wagon and they fight to get on it first.

What an interesting thread :-D :-D I loved Maggie's post - so real. My daddy didn't have a firm either.

Harry's post struck me too. As did StaffyKnot.

I do think that old time politicians like Mikado and Roy Mason are missing. The training of the current two leaders (Clegg is no longer really in things) was by Thatcher/Major and Blair/Brown. None of them very good, were they?

I think Cameron is up to the task, but has not got right team round him. He needs a lot fewer Cabinet Ministers and they need to be people who want to achieve things. I would ditch Osborne, May, Clarke, Gove immediately. Perhaps strangely I would keep IDS. And would bring in Davies and both Johnson brothers - and invite Farage to be Home Secretary.

Miliband is sinking without trace. Labour need to be ruthless at this point. More or less lose all of front bench. I would put Harman in charge. Only Eagle, Iwumu look good. I would see Darling back as Shadow Chancellor, bring David Miliband back as Shadow Foreign Secretary and put Mr & Mrs Balls on backbenches immediately.