General Chat

Hi all. I trying to help a friend find out what happened to a relative. The relative was JAMES ALBERT JOYCE, born in 1875 in Poplar, London.

We do know that he married a Rosina Jane Joyce nee Small in 1894. We are pretty sure he died between 1914 and 1918 and I'm thinking he may have died as a result of the war. However, I can't find a UK death record nor can I find a definitive Armed Forces death record, or even a service record.

Someone else in the family thought he followed his son (confusingly also James Albert) out to AUSTRALIA but I'm not convinced. I can find the son’s death record in Australia but not James Snr

HELP please

Is this James in the 1939 register? :-

Joyce Household (2 People)
3 Lower Coombe Street , Croydon C.B., Surrey, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER

James A Joyce 15 Nov 1875 Male Retail Licensce (Off Licen Married 55 1
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Kath. x

Or there is this record of a James A. Joyce going to Australia:-

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription
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First name(s) James A
Last name Joyce
Gender Male
Age 73
Birth year 1876
Marital status M
Occupation RETIRED
Departure year 1949
Departure day 1
Departure month 10
Departure port London
Destination port Melbourne
Destination MELBOURNE
State Victoria
Country Australia
Destination country Australia
Ship name Maloja
Ship official number 145437
Ship master's first name E J
Ship master's last name PARRY
Ship master's title CAPTAIN
Shipping line P. & O.
City LONDON
Ship destination port BRISBANE
Ship destination country AUSTRALIA
Ship registered tonnage 12204
Number of passengers 1021
Record set Passenger Lists Leaving Uk 1890-1960
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger lists
Collections from Great Britain, England
Transcriptions © brightsolid online publishing ltd

Travelling with Rebecca S. Joyce

Kath. x

MMmmm - Thanks so much for this. It COULD be either but I can't see anything there that absolutely proves it's him. The 1939 register shows his birthday as 1 day different. I will check with the family to see if the date they have is 100% correct.

I did a find an electoral record for a James Albert Joyce and Rosina in Camden, London in 1926. I thought that maybe that that James was their son (as he has the exact same name) but then the Australian death record for the son shows his death was in 1966 and that he had been there 45 years which must mean he arrived in 1921 and so can't be that one in Camden in 1926.

I can't match this Rebecca to my James Joyce - and that record shows his birth as 1876 whereas he was born in Nov1987.

But you said in your first post that he was born in 1875.

Kath. x

That Rebecca S Joyce going to Australia was born 1881, per travel record.
Their address was in Pitsea, Essex.

I can't see any marriage for such a couple in England/Wales.

Doh! Sorry Kath - Nov 1875

Thanks Argyl/Gran - don't think this is the one then. I'm starting to think Australia is a red herring, although not impossible.

Re birth year on Passenger list. They probably asked his age and took that from the year of travel 1949 - 73 =1876.

However if he was born in November 1875 plus his age of 73 = he would be 73 in the October that the ship sailed and not 74 until November 1948

The last UK address of the James and Rebecca on the Passenger list was
Wanderlied, Hazelmere Drive, Station Lane, Pitsea (Pitsea in the general area of Basildon, Essex)
They intend to reside in Australia permanently

Thanks greyghost - I don't think this James then is my man.

So many thanks for everybody who is helping.

A virtual pint of best to anyone who can solve this puzzle comprehensively.

What happened to Rosina? did she stay here or go to Aus'?

Long shot regarding the Rebecca mentioned, there are deaths for a James A Joyce and a Rebecca Joyce in Rochford Essex of around the ages given on that travel record assuming they returned? .

Joyce James A 1876 1958 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Rochford
Joyce Rebecca 1883 1966 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Rochford, Essex, England

No apparent marriage, is it possible that James A left Rosina ?

Nyx - what about James A JOYCE married Rebecca SHARP 1952 Brentwood, Esex

Yes sorry I missed that one.

Looking at it another way there are only two James A Joyce births within a few years either way of 1875, one being yours , the other in Leeds ( who married in Yorks).

http://www.bhsproject.co.uk/families_small.shtml

Not sure if this is your posting Paul?

It's a site I have used myself as my ancestors are mentioned there also.

This looks like Rosina's birth:

Births September quarter 1875
Small Rosina Jane Poplar 1c 592

but she is recorded as born 1879 on 1939 census, so this might be her death:

Rosina J Joyce
Birth Date: abt 1877
Date of Registration: Dec 1959
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Honiton
Inferred County: Devon

Added:
That link gives her as dying in 1950? (But I cannot see it.)

Thanks patchem; I saw this also


Nyx - Thanks, this is great. How do I contact this Paul Burton? He's not the first person to suggest James died before 1918 but no one seems to know how or where, or has any proof. It's SOOOOO frustrating.

??

London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
?
Name:Rosina Jane Small

Gender:Female

Age:9

>>>>>>>>Birth Date:28 Jun 1875

Admission Date:6 Jan 1885

School:Oban Street School

Admission Place:Tower Hamlets, London, England

Father: John Small

Notes:Oban Street School (0585) opened in 1883


1939 Register


Northcote Household (3 People)

6 D'Arcy Gardens , Harrow U.D., Middlesex, England

>>>>Rosina J Northcote 28 Jun 1875 Female Housewife Married 13 2
Albert Northcote 25 Jul 1886 Male Caretaker Aeroplane Drawing Officer Married 13 1
Ethel A Buxton 12 Apr 1895 Female General Servant Widowed 13 3


England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name:Rosina J Northcote

Birth Date:abt 1875

Date of Registration:Dec 1950

Age at Death:75

Registration district:Harrow

Inferred County:Middlesex

Volume:5f

Page:339

Could this be the Ethel A Buxton that Choccy found in 1939 Register?

Joyce, Ethel Ann MMN Small J Qtr Poplar Vol 01C Pg 642

If Rosina Jane Northcott (Northcote) was indeed Rosina Jane Joyce, Perhaps this is the marriage of James Albert Joyce and Rebecca S(harpe) - after Rosina died in 1950 -


Marriages Jun 1952

Joyce James A Sharp Brentwood 4a 837
SHARP Rebecca JOYCE Brentwood 4a 837