General Chat

On the basis that a person with any political nous at all would have kept schtum - no one needed to spout crass jokes because, as you have written, Rollo, Fallon had already begun to fall on his sword. I find the fact that any so-called politician felt the need to do so depicts a certain lack of integrity (in public, with an audience, even stupidity) unless, of course one is courting the limelight or has a book to promote and we all know that it goes on - yes, I am using the 'we' word again, Rollo, because I am certain that I am not the only who thinks that way.

Should you misinterpret my words and thoughts, Rollo, I am not advocating that MPs should be humourless at all, merely engage their brains before opening their mouths.

I take it you mean Jo Cox? Whatever, I believe that any racism or, indeed, any other kind of prejudice is abhorrent. The behaviour of MPs ought to be as good as the best of, if not slightly better than, Joe Public, in my opinion - as, indeed, I believe Jo Cox's behaviour was; she set a standard that others ought to aspire to.

Finally, there is no place in government or indeed in public life that 'hush' ought to be accepted as the norm but to joke or gossip about a serious issue is not the way to effect change and HH should have known better - and, indeed, she realised her faux pas, didn't she!

Now, get back to Brexit, Rollo, because WE all think that you are longing to bring it into the equation - it has got to be easy for your eloquent tongue/fingers/brain to find some connection to the subject in hand. In fact, I am suffering withdrawal symptoms from lack of its mention ..... and a good morning to you, too.

I'm with Rose and Rollo, they've said it all.

On what basis do you make such a claim? Who are "we"? What do you mean by "a politician"?
Fallon's fall came after years of abusive behaviour for which he was well known but protected by his network. Is he still a politician? He remains an MP.
The dismal fact is that right across British life there is widespread racism, anti semitism, xenophobia and misogyny protected by misplaced loyalty, fear and venality. It is causing misery, poor business practice, lax governance in politics by all sides and corruption. Lives are being lost two recent examples being Grenfell and Joe Cox.
This cancer should be exposed by politicians, right in the face if needs be, not hushed up. Those of all parties who prefer hush are not politicians. HH is known for speaking out. She should not be an exception.

..... And until now she (and we) thought she was a politician - not any more! :-S

My OH mother was born in the Jewish quarter of Montparnasse, Paris. My late partner, a Harvard alumni, was also Jewish. If Bob thinks the *joke" quoted by HH was really bad he has not heard much. Such banal jokes were common currency until fairly recently and certainly have not vanished. Tottenham Hotspur supporters use an insult against themselves as a rallying cry, the Yid Army.

There is a long, complex and paradoxical relationship between Labour party and the Jewish community. Up until 1973 Labour strongly backed the trad. Jewish community in both the UK and Israel. The ongoing illegal Israeli de facto annexation of the West Bank has destroyed Labour support for the Israeli state. It has had a mixed effect on English Jewry. The ultra orthodox in Finchley see Israel as blasphemy anyway.

The Tory party were instrumental in denying safety to hundreds of thousands of Jews in the 1930s even refusing transit visas to New York. This has not been forgotten despite a few British diplomats breaking ranks and joining the ranks of those counted "Righteous Among Nations". Indeed it is one reason that most of the Jewish population not only vote for but are active within the Labour party.

Which brings the circle back to HH attempts to get to grips with the anti semitism within British politics. She chose to use an actual example rather than gloss over the true content. Indubitably clumsy. The fallout has been as if HH liked the joke. Far from it. Those who are not aware of the tenor of anti semitism here in fact as well as the gnerality should be.

Andrew Neil has lost his mojo as an anchor because it is so obvious he wants a post in the media governorate. He will trim his sails accordingly.

Sorry hadn't realised I'd posted twice .

To state that AN would find that joke OK, was a terrible statement.and rightly he should have an apology for.

That joke is old and could be heard almost about any race. back in late 1960s.but it does have a deep raw edge which does offend as the contents evoke hapenings to a real life event...

No she didn't... nor do people have to use outdated and now considered offensive terms for various minorities...but they do unfortunately. When is too soon after a tragedy to make a joke about it? That was something that surfaced after 9/11 (to me the answer is never).

I have a real problem with the use of the N word in it's reconstructed form among the younger generation mainly ...which is used with the 'a' on the end not 'er' and is not considered by those who use it to be derogatory...but to me it will always be so.

tbh I don't find most jokes funny when they rely on nationality or racial stereotypes , so many of the Irish 'jokes' for instance play to the prejudices of previous centuries.. eg that the Irish are somehow 'thick...' .

She didn't need to tell the joke. She could have made it perfectly clear what type of jokes that she, and most decent people, find offensive without actually telling them. I could say that I find jokes about the Irish, or Pakistanis offensive without actually telling them. If it had been Boris in this situation his effigy would be burning as we speak. Perhaps HH's is.

I should add that there have been very few offensive jokes on here in recent times so maybe the previous posters of such have decided it's not worth the hassle :-)

I didn't see it because I can't stand Andrew Neill...not that keen on HH either come to that but...

quote

"Ms Harman later tweeted that it was "no laughing matter" and such jokes "perpetuate discrimination & hatred".

The former Labour deputy leader appeared on BBC One's This Week programme and repeated the joke in a segment about humour which offends people.

Referring to a story she recounts in her memoir A Woman's Work, she said: "I've long been accused of being humourless, and a humourless feminist, and I'll give you two examples that I protested about, because they were offensive and hurtful."
She annoyed host Andrew Neil by saying: "People like Andrew say that things like this are perfectly all right."
She was cut short by Mr Neil after telling the first joke - which she said was "not funny" - and the presenter reprimanded her for suggesting he would think it was OK."

So, from what I can gather, she was giving an example of a joke she finds offensive, which WAS offensive...

and yet when you find a joke offensive on here and say so, certain members get on their high horse and accuse one of being humourless... :-S

Should one be able to repeat a 'joke' which is offensive in order to illustrate (in a serious discussion which I assume it was ) the sort of 'joke' that IS offensive?

That and Corbyn's comment about why should we remember the WW1 dead, I for one would not vote for the cretins but hey ho I never have :-|

This was a really REALLY offensive joke. How anyone who is Jewish can even think of voting Labour is beyond me. How she could use the excuse of it being something that she found offensive, well...

Harriet Harman told an offensive joke on the show last night. She said it was intended to show the sort of jokes that she was offended by. She wanted to tell another but Andrew told her to shut up, and turned his back on her. Comments?