General Chat

A few years ago, friends of mine 'took in' a stray puppy from the streets of Bangkok, while they lived there.
They then moved to Hong Kong, where a stray cat adopted them.
Both animals were brought back to the UK with no problem.
Obviously, they'd had all the necessary registration, inoculations, health checks etc., but spent very little time in quarantine.

hard travelin' :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWYrV-JkMw8

Our eldest has 2 well traveled cats. They’ve been to San Francisco & back. Although I don’t know the full details, homeward bound they had to have various inoculations and weren’t quarantined in the UK for long, if at all.
They were sent back to the UK about 3 weeks before their slaves travelled & were settled in the temporary home before the humans.

Does that mean that at present NO animal can travel to the European Union from any other Country outside the 28?

I assume you are talking about live animals.

There are no great impediments for taking usual pets back and forth provided they are chipped, registered and rabies free (cert). Fairly obviously it is easier between, say, Los Angeles and Paris than, say, Indonesia. A personal pony or horse would generally be treated as a pet though they rarely change country except when sold. A showjumper would come under "racehorses".

Live animals fall into one of three groups and for each there is any amount of documentation needed - not only by the EU but also other countries. None can be moved without it. As well as docs recent vetinary confirmation is essential.

Group 1 are race horses. Never mind the EU countries such as the USA and Australia make shifting racehorses very difficult so much so that many don't bother given the risk and expense. Eire, France and the UK - the world's top bloodstock countries - have very special arrangements allowing (extremely) expensive and touchy racehorses to move around from stables and training to race courses without stress. Whether one is interested in racing or not it is a massive industry and very well supported by ordinary people. If racehorses end up stuck for hours at border posts whiletheir credentials are checked the whole industry will fall apart.

Group 2 are animals destined for zoos and wildlife parks. Again there is any amount of paperwork some of it EU centric some of it not. My zoo friends believe that the EU will not affect zoos etc very much as wildlife protection has organised itself on a world wide basis..

Group 3 are commercial animals destined to be slaughtered. This trade is horrible, cruel and should be brought to an end urgently. In the mid 1990s the UK used to export well over 2 million animals every year. It dropped to a few thousand sheep but now is rising again. The major buyers are halal butchers. To keep them happy animals endure very long journeys in poor conditions. The govt is encouraging this trade when it should be seeking to bring it to an end.

for BrianW

"Pet Passports" only applies to the UK. Other countries, including the USA, have more sane arrangements. The "Pet Passports" replaced the mad six month quarantine for cats and dogs during which many died or suffered irreperable damage inc mental health. Owners suffered too. Even "Pet Passports" is complicated with its demands and very unreasonable expenses. There are many non EU countries which accept "UK Pet Passports". The chief reason for them though is to allow re-entry to the UK. It is not available on Eurostar and many flights.

Other countries have more rational systems. Within the EU you can take your animals back and forward with you without any hassle or pet passport. The only exceptions are the UK and Eire. The only requirement is that the animal has had a rabies jab and is chipped. Taking a dog to the USA from France is barely more complicated.

Barnier has sparked this topic because the EU intends to beef up Schengen once the Brits have departed. None Schengen countries (inc EU / EEA members ) are likely to need a visa while tracking of people across the Schengen borders will be very much more intensive.

"Unless I have mis read you Rollo, you don't comment on the effect the loss of tourism in the EU would cause if planes were prevented from Landing. "

If the UK does end up with "no deal" the planes won't be taking off. That covers the whole world as all North American flying rights are under EU auspices similarly over flying rights to Africa and Asia. No insurance, no fly.

If the UK aviation industry wishes to continue as it is then it will have to accept EU control as the EU will not let go of what it calls its "Competence to Act for Member States". Canada has found this out already with its much vaunted trade treaty. By the time it has done all needed to satisfy the EU the effort is not worth the candle.

Try and remember that the UK does 70% of its business under EU auspices. The EU does only 10% of its business with the UK, nearly zero for many EU states. The only ones which are really getting antsy about the UK are Eire (panic) plus the Netherlands and Denmark. Not really a QMV against whatever Barnier, Macron and Merkel decide. It is is futle the govt here passing an "EU withdrawal Act" if on the other side of the channel absolutely no parallel activity is happening. P-g in the wind.

Moreover no world scale business operating in the UK is British owned or controlled with the single exception of Rolls Royce. Over time - not very long for some - they will wind down their UK operations to supply and support only.

I just hope that we don't end up with thousands of cats and dogs seperated from their owners. The mere possibility of Pet Passports ceasing prevents me from restoring cats or dogs to my household. Brexit is also going to totally screw up horse racing someting else dear to my heart.

The whole brexit nonsense will crash and burn. Whether that happens over the next year or so in some kind of Hindenberg disaster or gradually as with Dutch Elm Disease the outcome will be the same. The claims that the EU itself is sick and dying look more fatuous by the day.

Anyone like to explain why an agreement to allow properly documented pets (and livestock) to travel between Countries is dependent on one's Country being a member of another's political block.

Does that mean that at present NO animal can travel to the European Union from any other Country outside the 28?

Unless I have mis read you Rollo, you don't comment on the effect the loss of tourism in the EU would cause if planes were prevented from Landing.

One of the many basic mistakes that the Brits make about the EU is that it is primarily a trading organisation aka "Common Market". It is nothing of the sort.

The primary purpose of the EU is to uphold peace, democracy and the rule of law. Trading agreements stem from this not the other way around. Given the history of Europe 1870-2015 with many destructive wars, dictatorships etc that is hardly surprising.

Germany is losing far more money because of boycotts on Russia for instance ( and has been for some years now) than eny potential problems with the UK.

The UK does 70% of its exports with the EU and 3rd countries (eg S Korea China USA) with EU agreements. The EU depends on the UK for 10% of its total export earnings. If there is a bust up the EU will be bruised. The UK would be in emergency care.

At some point I would like to have another cat or cats as I think my late and very much missed cat would approve. However if the pet passport scheme was revoked then I would be back to the bad old days of leaving animals in care in the EU or quarantine. Not the least reason for the introduction of Pet Passports was the damage it was causing to UK tourism!

Some kind of brexit in which the UK opted out of the political structures but kept access to the Single Market ( founded by M Thatcher ) and the Customs Union could be implemented without unmitigated trouble and vast expense. There was nothing in the Referendum to block such an arrangement.

fwiw membership of the EU does not seem to damage the exports of Germany which exports far more to China, the USA and India (Liam Fox's no.1 targets) than does the UK despite being "held back" by not being able to do its own trade treaties. What a load of bx.

As it is the current debates sound more like a bad scene from Edgar Allen Poe than a coherent government.

OK yes, I agree, I get that but if the EU don't help solve the problem, contracts etc won't they suffer by loss of income from tourism. They quote what will happen as if they will be punishing us but won't they be punishing themselves as well?

All aspects of UK air travel from mfg safety standards, pilot qualifications, airworthiness, landing slots etc etc stem from a mixture of EU law and EU agreements with other states of which the most important is the USA. If there is no deal at all then air travel would be grounded after brexit day as all insurance would be void.

Due to the way contracts and schedules are put together a year before they come into operation the UK air industry needs to get its ducks in a row by March 2018. It is increasingly likely that trade talks won't now begin (if they begin at all) until March 2018.

UK airlines are working on plans to shift their operating centres to other parts of the EU and transfer qualifications to EU states. That would stop Ryan Air, EasyJet etc from going bust but would do nothing about lots of other stuff which employs tens of thousands of people in everything from jet engine maintenance to inflight meals.

In the event of "no deal" the EU is likely to play hard ball and and any aviation deal will rest on the EU remaining in full control of the UK aviation industry. If people don't like that they can get our their coracle from the shed.

Brexit is a fantasy which looks set to go feral unless somebody gets a grip. If we leave without a deal the nutters will very quickly discover that "taking back control" means no control at all.

Vera Lol!!! :-D

I suppose if we are not part of the EU we can't expect EU allowances as presumably they think they would, all of a sudden get an influx of undesirable cats and dogs. I am pretty sure it is all bluff, especially about the possibility of not letting our planes land in the EU.

I had seen this in another paper. It’s very sad as the benefits of pet owning, particularly for more vulnerable people, are quite well documented. It reminded me of a time some 20 years ago when we had to rent a house for 9 months while ours was underpinned.

We found the house we wanted but there was a “no pets” clause. The agents insisted the owners would not relax this rule but I asked them to contact the owners and explain that we only had one cat who was past being a kitten and was quite well-behaved. I also said that we would withdraw our offer to rent unless the cat could come with us. The owners relented and puss came too.

We were very amused when we got the rental agreement to sign and it specifically stated that we could have “one middle aged, well behaved cat” :-D

Do you have a pet?

A lynx maybe or failing that a cat who believes himself to be a tiger or black panther of the night. Or a dog allowed to run around for fun and die for his country or get muddy. Maybe after last night's blue world maybe the poss of hosting a bobbit has put people off aquariums. But there are lots of other possibilities ... parrots, chameleons, ferrets.

Sadly in our modern world where the possibilities of having fun and being prosperous are ever diminishing even having a pet is a pleasure which too many people cannot enjoy. Even the miserable brexit talks are considering the end of pet passports.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/13/dysfunctional-housing-market-robbing-lifes-joys-pets-cats-dogs