General Chat

Oh my, maggiewinchester :)

"Surely, 'j'aurais dû faire mes devoirs' is an example of using 'of' in French where we use 'have' in English?"

Shirley not indeed!

I can only guess that you are identifying "dû" as meaning "du" ("de le"). Actually it is the past participle of the verb "devoir" and has nothing to do with "de" (or "du") at all!

"Aurais dû" derives from the verbs "avoir" and "devoir". It means "should have". "Aurais dû faire" is "should have done". There is no "of" in the French.

There truly is no linguistic connection between "bored of" ("of" is a preposition) and "should of" ("of" is a mishearing / misunderstanding of "ve" or "have"). There may be cultural collocation, as it were -- people who say one tend to say the other -- but they truly are unrelated.

But you are getting at the same thing as I was when you say "most common preposition". In French, "de" covers a myriad of sins -- far more than in good English. For example: "entreprise de capacité reconnue". Not "company of recognized capacity" -- company "with" or "having" the recognized capacity.

Here's a fun one, along the "bored of" line:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fed%20up%20of

"Definition of fed up of -- informal, **British** -- very tired of (something)"

Heh heh.

A semi-learned discussion you might like:

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/66710/which-is-correct-bored-of-bored-by-bored-with

* The BBI Combinatory Dictionary of English says that "British English also has bored of, esp. in children's language." I thought you might like that quote.

* I had a friend who used to rant about people saying "I would of [done something]". She regularly used to lay into "bored of [something]" within the same tirade, despite me trying to point out that they were totally different contexts. The first is really ignorant - the second just sounds ignorant (probably by association, imho! :).

* In relation to the sub-issue of "would of". This has arisen purely through slack speech, i.e. people saying the correct form, past tense, "would have", but pronouncing it "would've" which sounds like "would of".

There we have it!!

Well my grammar is not going to improve; she's dead ;-)

Posh words should not be allowed to eclipse the message.

Joonie, in reply to your post of 17:08
Surely, 'j'aurais dû faire mes devoirs' is an example of using 'of' in French where we use 'have' in English? But has little bearing on it's use in the English language.

I think you'll find that those who tend to say 'bored of' are very likely to say 'should of' and could of' - mainly because (in the case of eg 'should of') they've never grasped the shortening of 'have', and when spoken, 'should've sounds like 'should of'.
Agreed, 'bored' should be followed by 'with' or 'by' and not 'of', but if people don't read much, they're likely to use the most common preposition.

My friend Barbs on my usual thread says ow bist,
and she is from Bristol.
Loch Muick is Loch Mick walked round that Loch
many a time in my younger days. :-)

I saw a sticker on the back of a car today, it said "Ow bist?" I believe this is Kernow for "how are you? Or is it from Yorkshire?

Sorry Emma, you've got me there. An army friend from Sunderland came to stay with me in the 60's. My mum asked me to stop him using the "C" word. Baffled by this, I roared with laughter when I realised that it was his pronunciation of "can't".

Bob if you like dialects you may know the correct
way to say Loch Muick. :-)

Correct use of English is still important.

It's a delightful language.

maggiewincheser, "I wouldn't say French affects the English use of 'of' in place of 'have'."

Well that one is easily disposed of! That's not what I said. :-)

I was talking about what I actually said, which was what SuffolkVera had raised: "bored of + noun" and the similar "excited to + infinitive". Not talking about "should of", which is simply, forgive me, an illiterate transcription of "should have", and nothing to do with French at all, of course.

I wouldn't say French affects the English use of 'of' in place of 'have'.
As a Learning Support Assistant in a primary school, even children who hadn't been exposed to French used 'should of'.
When I was at school, 'Janet and John' books, despite being misogynistic to the highest degree, didn't shorten words.
It was 'do not', 'did not', 'should have', 'could not' etc
Modern reading schemes shorten words to 'don't', 'didn't' etc, so the child is unaware of how/why the shortening happens.
'Should've' sounds like 'should of' and the link between 'should have' and 'should've' has never been taught, or explained.

Any child I noticed (at primary or secondary level) who regularly used 'of' instead of 'have' would have me asking 'Of you done your homework?' At which point I would receive a curious look. I would ask what was wrong - they'd correct me, and I would then explain the 'of' and 'have' conundrum.
'Have you done your homework? You should have (should've)'

It's like the 'me' or 'I' problem.
You say 'I went to the beach', therefore, it's 'John and I went to the beach'
You say 'She gave me a sweet', therefore, it's 'She gave John and me a sweet'.

As for my other bugbear - there, they're and their.
Here and there, (distance) they are, and their - meaning belongs to them - has the possessive 'I' in it.

As for two, to and too. Two's a number. As for too, In Scotland (where I started school) we were told that where 'we' (hence a need to learn dialect pretty darned quick when we moved) used the word oer in speech - ie 'It's oer hot' - the oer' could be replaced with 'too'! :-D :-D

Oh SuffolkVera, after my own heart. "Bored of" -- where did that come from?? Fortunately, it is mostly in the British Isles at present, and I can only hope it stays there! ;-)

In the same vein, "I am excited to", endemic in home improvement shows. Anxious to do something, yes. Excited about doing something, surely.

In both Canada and the UK (damn that EU, eh?) I tend to think that some of these preposition nonsenses are a result of infection from French, which plays fast and loose with its "de" in particular. With a noun, it becomes "bored of". With an infinitive, it becomes "excited to". Blaming (the) French is always useful!

Did she end up having a fruneral as well?

My nan came home from the surgery and told us she had seen her friend, Fan, and Fan had rheumatartitis and it's in her hippitiz.

My Nan used to say she was going to get antibiolics and a cerstificate from Dr FitzGeneral.

Draw your own conclusions! :-D :-D

I must say that I love dialects etc. One of the first expressions I picked since moving to Warwickshire was "tarrarabit"

My first M-i-L pronounced certificate "cerstificate"

Sir John Cheke (16 June 1514 – 13 September 1557) was an English classical scholar who wrote:

‘I am of this opinion that our own tung should be written cleane and pure, unmixt and unmangeled with borowing of other tunges; wherein if we take not heed by tiim, ever borowing and never paying, she shall be fain to keep her house as bankrupt‘. ;-)

I am from North London so drop H's and T's amongst other fings :-D :-D.

I am from Sussex.We have long vowels and don't say the ends of words.

A woman who moved here from Kent (Kint) was most offended when she thought she was told she needed bowel wire for her table lamp.

A challenge there.....