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Vaccine passports.

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

JustGinnie

JustGinnie Report 8 Apr 2021 11:23

Having seen and heard a fair bit on TV about vaccine passports I am wondering how would they work if people don't have a smart phone .

Neither I or OH have smart phones so how would we be able to show a 'passport'.

I get so fed up of people assuming that everyone has these things.

We have no driving licence, passport or smart phone and sometimes it's as if we don't exist. :-S :-S

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 8 Apr 2021 11:26

I do have a passport, but no smart phone or driving licence and often feel the same as you.

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 8 Apr 2021 11:38

I have no current passport, no driving licence, and my smartphone is in my sister's name!
It will be a similar fiasco to the Government's (not the NHS's) 'Test & Trace', where, even if you do have a smartphone, it will need to be a 'newer' one, and will have to have enough space to download Government cr*p.

People don't buy smartphones, so the Government can use them!
Should people really have to, say, delete photographs from their smartphone to download a passport?'
The same could be said for their 'proposal' that people should have to provide identity when voting - no doubt that, too would be on a smartphone.

If the Government want to use 'our' property for their business - fine - but they should buy and pay for that property!
Likewise with laptops, which children need for schoolwork, even without a pandemic. Why should parents have to buy them? We used text books, which belonged to the school, and were provided free. We gave them back when we'd finished with them - and it should be the same with laptops.

Rant over :-D :-D

nameslessone

nameslessone Report 8 Apr 2021 11:40

An elderly friend of a friend is having problems with her bank. She is taken by a borrowed wheelchair. The bank won’t accept an out of date passport ( too frail to need a new one) or an out of date driving licence which can’t be renewed by post, apparently. Not up to date with what happens next.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 8 Apr 2021 11:40

But does it have to be an actual passport

We get a card with the record of the jabs given anyway

Couldn’t that be officially endorsed in some way

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Apr 2021 11:50

I don't have a passport, driving licence or smart phone and don't want any of them.

I imagine that you would get a letter or some other form from your doctor to prove you have had the vaccine (which you may have to pay for as you do for any other official letter from the doctor). I am all for this.

I know the government are still thinking about needing them for opening up businesses in England but I for one would feel much happier going into a restaurant or cinema etc. if I knew everyone around me had been vaccinated.

How many of those who think they are a restriction of our civil liberties would be happy to be operated on by a surgeon who didn't have a certificate to prove they had been vaccinated for Hepatitis B ?

Kath. x

grannyfranny

grannyfranny Report 8 Apr 2021 11:55

I don't have a smartphone, nor do I intend to get one for these purposes.
Funnily enough, I have just deleted an offer from Costa Coffee that came via email, I have a loyalty card. The offers are only ever available via their app, so no good to me.
I also had a grumble in the Body Shop, they sent me a voucher by email, which I needed to show in the shop. However the manager bypassed that and gave me it anyway.

Re the vaccine 'passport', we got a card with the date and batch number of the first jab, second due any day now. But it didn't have my name on, I filled that in myself.
But generally, most over 60's will be vaccinated so shouldn't need to have to prove it.
The ones who can't be could have an exemption cert, and the ones who choose not to don't deserve to be out anyway.

And for identity, many of us do have bus passes with a photo on.

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Apr 2021 12:02

Yes, grannyfranny, my bus pass is the only photo identity I have but not many places accept it as such.

If I need to do any business in person at the bank I always have to take a recent household bill and an up to date bank statement with me. I then have to go through the process of being able to tell them when and where I have used my bank card and for how much to prove who I am. It really annoys me that it is so difficult to get access to my own money when I have been with the same bank for more than 50 years. I don't even use my card that much as I am old fashioned enough to prefer cash.

Kath. x

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 8 Apr 2021 12:06

I don't have a bus pass, I'm not old enough.
In some areas, you can choose a bus pass, or a train fare reduction pass - which doesn't require a photo.

grannyfranny

grannyfranny Report 8 Apr 2021 12:16

I struggle with identity via the household bills or banking, as OH does all that online.
I can't remember what I needed for a bus pass, I know I struggled to find suitable ID.
I think now I can use my passport and driving licence, both have photos and one must have my address. However my bus pass was renewed without needing more proof.

JustGinnie

JustGinnie Report 8 Apr 2021 12:35

I have my photo bus pass but as said before this is not accepted in most places.

The ID in banks I can understand if you are opening a new account but when you have had an account or more than one for years it does get annoying. One bank wouldn't accept bills of any kind even though I had a credit card with them at the time. and just wanted to open a current account with them. So went to another bank for both.

Regards the vac. pass. I have no problem with showing a card or such but I don't want to have to buy another device for it. ..

Good rant Maggie, well said. :-D :-D

Florence61

Florence61 Report 8 Apr 2021 14:11

Ladies i have to agree with all of what has been said. My parents do not have smartphones and mum does not have a passport.

So if you get an actual covid certificate, unless it has your picture on it, then whats to stop anyone giving that cert to anyone say going to a football match or nightclub?

In anycase, how is that going to work when you have say 5k people queuing up to get in to a large stadium or at night to go into a nightclub etc...It would just add to the waiting time to get in along with being searched.

Some people cant have the jag, pregnant ladies for one so I think its discrimination if they and others can't enter certain places without a certificate.

In anycase, it has been said that having the Covid jag will prevent you becoming severely unwell if you catch it but you can still pass it on to others even if you have had the jag??? So being in a restaurant where everyone has been jagged will reduce your chances of catching Covid but still no guarantee.

And yes, what if your smartphone isnt the latest one? I certainly am not changing mine every year or so just to have the latest one.

The airlines use to let you fly within the Uk on the strength of a photo ID card like a bus pass and no passport required but that has gone now so my mum can't fly up here unless she applies for a passport which costs a lot of money.

I do feel my civil liberties are being reduced and my ability to travel and go where i want are slowing decreasing on a daily basis.

Florence in the hebrides

Andysmum

Andysmum Report 8 Apr 2021 14:40

Found the following on Google. Also EasyJet say you only need photographic ID, which can be an out-of-date passport.

****If you are flying solely within the UK, including Northern Ireland, you do not need a passport but we advise that you carry photographic identification with you when travelling, such as your passport or driving licence. This may be requested at certain points in your journey.****

About vaccine passports for pubs etc., we were not given cards or anything to say we had been done. When we had the second jabs, I asked the nurse about passports and she said that until the government decided what it wanted they weren't doing anything!!

In Scotland all medical records are on line, and all vaccinations are on a centralised database so if proof is required it can easily be obtained by anyone authorised to access the records.

OH said that the certificates will need updating every time we get a booster.

Florence61

Florence61 Report 8 Apr 2021 14:48

Yes but a buss pass with a photo will not be accepted now as ID on a flight. It says passport of driving licence.If you are elderly like my mum, she doesnt drive or have a passport. We asked a few years ago if her buss pass was acceptable on easy jet and BA but they said no.

Florence in the hebrides

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 8 Apr 2021 15:43

All EU countries have had an ID Card system since the year dot. It simplifies life no end. Such a scheme was about to be brought in by the last Labour govt. but Cameron scrapped it.

For international travel a current passport has been a legal requirement for years and years. Within the EU an ID card was sufficient.

Something called "the yellow card" is under consideration for EU travel which would carry current COVID status of the holder. The UK is a participant but would have to make a dramatic reduction in its current testing fees. For a variety of reasons it would have to be a physical card as online runs into a wall of data confidentiality and boarding times. A physical card could of course be forged. A smart card would be much harder to forge and could carry test stats in the chip.

A smart card system might also meet internal UK requirements as 1. it would not need a smart phone 2. could be checked in moments. OTOH the pub, restaurant etc would need a reader. The problem of discrimination against the unvaccinated / untested would remain.

Any current functional smartphone would have no problem with storage space for an online vaccination app. The ( well kown I think ) problems are that ( due to decisions made by Apple * Google re security) the phone must run Android 8 or a fairly recent iOS. Many popular apps require Android 8. Further the phone would enable Orwellian levels of surveillance - which is why many MPs are against such a scheme. The same firm who ran up a large bill for the govt with the IOW scheme are top of the list for another big bonus.

Vaccination - even two jabs - does not of itself dramatically reduce the covid risk of a person towards somebody else eg in a restaurant. The vacc. is known to be only 90% effective so that still gives a 10% chance of picking up covid.
The power of the vacc. program lies in getting > 80% of the population vaccinated. The virus is then denied space to replicate and the R number falls. Even with around 50% of the population vacc. the dramatic impact in the UK is obvious. Those who refuse to be vaccinated are getting a free ride on those that do plus placing themselves at consderably higher risk.

As a vcc cert or passport does not prove anything much at a single meeting the whole idea is lacking in logic. It is a bit like believing that the roads are safe because (nearly) all drivers have a driving licence.

Shops, services, hospitality are for the most part against covid passports. Those in favour are those who have large numbers of people at once in one place eg football matches. The problem is that ( see above ) as there is at least a 10% fail risk even in a fully vacc audience a full up Wimbledon or Wenbley could just be a grand chance for a mass breakout by the virus!

The government of course want something which will get its finances back in order with people and business paying tax rather than receiving lots of dosh. Hence it is flying a kite for various covid vaccination passports,

Assuming that the govt can get to 80% + vaccination plus boosters for mutants (or a more effective vaccine ) then covid will decrease to manageable levels. A passport purporting to offer security that is impossible would not help anyone.








Allan

Allan Report 8 Apr 2021 22:06

Back in the good old days, smallpox vaccination certificates were accepted with no photographic identity required

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 9 Apr 2021 00:47

That's true - I still have mine, somewhere.
And the huge scar on my arm is evidence of a smallpox jab! :-D