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Looks like William G marriage ties with his wife being born in Birmingham

Marriages Mar 1883
Austin William George Birmingham 6d 67
Sleigh Mary Birmingham 6d 67


Not seeing where the Kybert comes in

Yes that has me puzzled looks like she may have been adopted .

It may help to see who she puts as her dad on the marriage cert.

Still trying to trace Thomas on the census's


EDIT am thinking its an enumerator error putting her as daughter . more likely she is their live in domestic servant. The head of house has a qualified occupation

Again thanks for Alice Maud Kybert - she is a servant living in Peckham. Do you think she is adopted as they have her as daughter, but she is not an AUSTIN.

Have I got this wrong?

Hubbies are important.

I keep thinking about how the names coming down the Turner lines and keep confusing.

Johannah in the household in 1911 is aged 2 years , but my Johanna (h) was born 1880. It is possible that this family are related. In our family we have a sister to Amy Turner (formerly Noble) who has a baby within a couple of years of Amy Tuner and calls her Amy (Turner) very difficult to trce which is correct without certificates.

By the way thanks for the info on certificates. I always purchase them from govt.UK, but thanks it is important to know these things.

Better go and do something.

Thank you Shirley.

Sappho.

Is this Alice birth?


Births Jun 1876
Kybert Alice Maud Camberwell 1d 84


1891 census
1891 census transcription details for: 4, Godman Road, Camberwell, Peckham

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 476
Folio: 106
Page: 44
Reg. District: Camberwell
Sub District: Peckham
Parish: Camberwell
Enum. District: 18
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 4, Godman Road, Camberwell, Peckham
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
AUSTIN, William G Head M 35 1856 Furniture Designer And Draughtsman
Brierly Hill, Staffordshire
AUSTIN, Mary Wife Married F 35 1856
Birmingham, Warwickshire
AUSTIN, Francis S Son M 7 1884
Vauxhall, London
AUSTIN, Mary M Daughter F 5 1886
Birmingham, Warwickshire
AUSTIN, Herbert S Son M 4 1887
Reading, Berkshire
AUSTIN, George W Son M 0 (1M) 1891
Peckham, London
KYBERT, Alice M Daughter Single F 14 1877 General Servant
Peckham, London

Have to get Hubby something to eat .will look in later

Just to be going on with this is FreeBMD

www.freebmd.org.uk

When you buy certs only gt them from

www.gro.gov.uk.
You have to register ,free, and the follow the order form . If you have the GRO ref then you only need to specify the type of cert wanted and tick the box that asks if the GRO ref is known and then use the ref where asked for, You don't need both spouses names for a marriage cert.

Certs cost £9.25 each with the GRO ref quoted/ Dont use any other site for certs as you will pay more for them.

I am now frustrated - just typed a whole lot of info and lost it all in a flash.

Here we go again:
1911 census transcription details for: 10 Falstaff Yard

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National Archive Reference:
RG14PN1766 RG78PN62 RD23 SD2 ED4 SN297
Reg. District: Southwark
Sub District: Kent Road
Parish: Southwark St George the Martyr
Enum. District: 4
Address: 10 Falstaff Yard
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
TURNER, Thomas Head Married M 27 1884 Plateman On Hotel Southwark
TURNER, Maud Wife Married
6 years F 29 1882 Southwark
TURNER, Rose Boarder Single F 21 1890 Factory Hand Southwark
TURNER, Ena Emily Daughter F 5 1906 Southwark
TURNER, Johannah Daughter F 2 1909 Southwark



married 6 years 2 children born ,still living

I do not think this is the same Thomas as I have his death cert. and it states temporary postman and not plateman which I would have thought a special trade of the time.
On Thomas death cert in my possession it states A M Maud wife living at Queens Buildings, Borough S.E.1. So Maud may be the name used, but I do remember my mum saying about an Alice when she was alive, but in what connection I cannot place.

Do you think it may help if we try to trace Johannah's other brother William b 1893 and anything coming from that. I have the birth cert and William was born at 17 Clarendon Street. Southwark. He is William James. I have no further information on William. He is with the family on the 1901 Census. On this census they have Johanna as Jemina. This is definitely my Johannah as she was a paper sorter and was not married then. William is 8 years old.

Can you look on 1911 Census to see if you have William with any other family members. Of my direct Turner line I can only trace Johanna, Thomas , William and Amy. I have Amy's line coming forward and my own Johanna's line, but it is the brothers that have me stumped.

I take your point - not too much detail so hope I have not gone against this here, but need to let you know where I am at.

Thanks so much,

Sappho

Shirley,

Thank, thank you so much for your explanations. I live in NZ and so I went into Free BMD and had a bit of difficulty. So the site using google is FreeBMD? I get redirected to roots and Ancestry.

I do not have Ancestry membership and so this is not easy. I am in Christchurch, NZ but I would have thought the FreeBMD would come up the same where-ever!

To go over what I think is correct.

Thomas Turner married Alice Maud Kybert and they had a son Thomas born 1911.. Getting the birth certificate for Thomas Turner 1885 was an expense in itself. I sent and rec'd several incorrect certs in my efforts. No matter as I finally got the correct one - 1d 41 born 1885 to William Turner and Amy Turner formerly Noble.

I also sent for and I am sure this one is correct - the death certificate for Thomas (1939) the same year as my grandmother Johanna his sister. This has the informant as A M Turn Wife (Alice Maud?).

Now we come to the son - Thomas Turner born 1911 and here is where I am having a bit of trouble as the name is 'common'. I have found a Thomas F who marries Eva Lopez (??). Now I have not sent for Thomas Turner 1911 birth certificate to confirm and maybe I should, but have wanted to get a bit more information and then maybe I can send for a few.

So now we have Ena - I shall just go and have another look at the census now and see where that fits in. I do not have access to 1911 census. Is this Thomas sister? I shall go and look at this now.

Shirley (I'm GTHofit) many many thanks - it is so helpful and I have followed what you have indicated. I guess I will have to send for Thoma T. 1911 birth cert. to be certain!

Thank you again.

Sappho

A different area from Southwark but may be her

Marriages Mar 1936
Turner Ena E Marson Surrey N. E. 2a 156
spouse
Marson Edward M

This looks like Ena from the 1911 census with Thomas and Alice/Maud
Name: Ena Elsie Turner
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1906
Registration district: Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 69

Just for info . you may already know this, mothers maiden names arent shown on the GRO index before 3rd quarter 1911. They are of course on the actual cert but if its a fairly common surname then sometimes its trial and error ,and sometimes wrong certs! to get the right birth cert. Census info is invaluable when trying to find some births, Doesn't help if children were born and died between two census's

Hi

Not sure which BMD,s you are using FreeBMD is a great free site from 1837 when registration started to about the 1950, s which they are still transcribing. Not all births though were reg till 1875 when it became the parents responsibility to reg a birth with a fine for non or late registration.

I use FMP as well as Ancestry for look ups .

Its best not to put too much info in when doing look ups. For instance putting a second christian name in sometimes wont find anything because the register has just an initial for the second name,

Recently after loads of searching and buying wrong certs I found a death in 1906 for a rellie whose death hadnt been reg with any second name or initial. His "wife" on the 1911 was still recorded as married hence I wasted time & money looking for him after 1911 and also wondered where he was in 1911.

So less is more is the way to go.

If i can help any further let me know . :-D

Hi Shirley,

I cannot get on with BMD. I do not find their site easy to negotiate. Why is this?
I do not understand.

Thanks

Thank you so much for all the information. You really are good to go to the trouble. I will go to free BMD for information.

You are generally on the right track. Thomas Charles and Johanna (h) Povey are my grandparents. I have a great tree for them, but it is Johanna's siblings I am trying to trace now. I have Amy Turner (her sister) marrying Frank White and they had two girls Gladys May and Amy. I have the marriages of both girls and the children of Gladys (two daughters), but they did not even know of my grandmother so no help there.

will just hve to follow up.

thanks

Sappho

sister Amy is with Johanna in 1911
1911 census transcription details for: 33 Great Bland St S E

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National Archive Reference:
RG14PN1801 RG78PN64 RD23 SD4 ED9 SN279
Reg. District: Southwark
Sub District: Newington North
Parish: St Mary Newington
Enum. District: 9
Address: 33 Great Bland St S E
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
POVEY, Thomas Head Married M 30 1881 Carman London Bermondsey S E Bermondsey
POVEY, Johanah Wife Married
8 years F 29 1882 London S E Bermondsey
TURNER, Amy Sister Of Wife F 15 1896 Errand Girl Londo S E Bermondsey

So is Maud in fact Alice Maud?? If so they weren't married in 1911 though thay say they are on the census

1911 census transcription details for: 10 Falstaff Yard

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN1766 RG78PN62 RD23 SD2 ED4 SN297
Reg. District: Southwark
Sub District: Kent Road
Parish: Southwark St George the Martyr
Enum. District: 4
Address: 10 Falstaff Yard
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
TURNER, Thomas Head Married M 27 1884 Plateman in Hotel Southwark
TURNER, Maud Wife Married
6 years F 29 1882 Southwark
TURNER, Rose Boarder Single F 21 1890 Factory Hand Southwark
TURNER, Ena Emily Daughter F 5 1906 Southwark
TURNER, Johannah Daughter F 2 1909 Southwark



married 6 years 2 children born ,still living

look a possible
Name: Thomas Fernard Turner
Birth Date: 18 Nov 1911
Date of Registration: Nov 1994
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: London
Register Number: B77A
District and Subdistrict: 2561B
Entry number: 95

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1847-1965 about Thomas F Turner
Name: Thomas F Turner
Electoral Year: 1961
Parliamentary Division: Bermondsey
County or Borough: Southwark

Living at 31 Neptune Street with Edward Turner and Lilian B Turner