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Dennis O'Keefe and Lilian M Wilson are interesting ... but I don't think that certificate would likely be useful just now ...

(oops, read down, we can discard this one)

Births Jun 1901
O'Keefe Dennis W. Ham 4a 8

the family is 'Keep' at Ancestry in 1901 and Dennis was in the household

Thomas O Keep 30
Maria O Keep 36
Thomas Waterloo O Keep 4
Margaret O Keep 1
> Dennis O Keep 3 Weeks

so born before census ... so

Name: Dennis O'Keefe
> Birth Date: 8 Mar 1901
Date of Registration: Jun 1972
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: Havering
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 214

(discard because)

1964 electoral roll in Havering

Name: Dennis O'Keefe + Elsie Maud O'Keefe
Year: 1964
County or Borough: Hornchurch
Ward or Division/Constituency: Havering
Street address: 3 Woburn Avenue

Name: Elsie Maud O'Keefe
Birth Date: 7 Aug 1902
Date of Registration: May 1989
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Havering
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 13
Page: 85

Marriages Sep 1929
O'Keefe Dennis Senear W.Ham 4a 355
Senear Elsie M O'Keefe W. Ham 4a 355

just ruling out that Dennis on the ER ... who is almost certainly the one born in 1901 in West Ham then

there are other Dennis O'Keefe marriages around the same time that are not accounted for by births in England, so I think there were imported Dennis O'Keefes :-) ... who perhaps did not remain in England ...

in any event the Wilson-O'Keefe marriage did not result in children (unless Wilson was previously married) and I still don't see them on an electoral roll together


I dunno ... round and round I have gone

if you feel like flinging money around, it might actually be interesting to see the Wilson-O'Keefe marriage certificate, at least to get their ages and marital statuses and have that info for looking for later records


another candidate for the Wilson-O'Keefe marriage

Name: Dennis O'Keefe
Birth Date: abt 1900
Date of Registration: Sep 1955
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 66

Thanks again Joonie. I shall have to read your latest findings over and over before it all sinks in! So a death in October 1991 showing a matching birth date has only one "f" whereas the birth in Dublin has two.
I suppose it is feasible that John J moved out of Camberwell soon after we can see him on the electoral register with Vera Johnson and the pair of them went to live in Brent Middlesex. He first appeared at uncle's address 27 Philip Road in 1955 and was there as far as records go to on here but he may have been there a lot longer.
I got excited when you found a Dennis O'Keefe marrying Lilian M Wilson. Woudl that marriage be on the marriages and bans on Ancestry do you think?
Which certificate would you advise me to send for next please?

I'm not seeing this death mentioned here I think

Name: John Joseph O'Keefe
Birth Date: 27 Jul 1927
Date of Registration: Oct 1991
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Brent
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 11
Page: 835

again that would seem to be a good age for matching when your John J O'K first appeared on electoral rolls?

and there is no birth to match

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1S1-6Z2

Name John Joseph O'Keeffe
Event Type Birth
> Event Date Jul - Sep 1927
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1927
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 383

?

you can't mark the post 'unanswered' - and never ever mark it 'answered'! :-)

that's something that can't be undone, so best to leave it in case further questions arise etc.


I keep looking back at your thread and poking around for Lilians and Johns ... with the odd theory arising, but ...

well I may as well share :-)

I was looking at these

Marriages Sep 1925
O'Keefe Dennis Wilson W. Ham 4a 821
Wilson Lilian M O'Keefe W.Ham 4a 821

I can't see them together on an electoral roll

then this person would have come of age to vote around when your John J O'K first appeared with Bass on the electoral roll I think

Births Mar 1927
O'Keefe John J Bray Stepney 1c 466

(edit, aargh, he's the one who died in childhood, so that was a stupid theory anyway)

and this is the matching marriage

Marriages Jun 1924
Bray Annie E O'Keefe Poplar 1c 764
O'Keefe John E Bray Poplar 1c 764


so I was hoping to find that Dennis O'K and John Edward O'K were brothers (which would have made Lilian the aunt-in-law of John J) (edit - except that this John J was deceased)

but in the 1901 and 1911 censuses, the people who appear to be them have different parents, one father born in Cork and the other in England at least as stated


so back to the drawing board ...

Thanks Joonie. Just thought I would update all the helpers as to the current situation and did not think that just a name without any dates would matter. I am reluctant to mark the post as unanswered just yet.
regards.

Jennifer you really shouldn't be naming the people you're in contact with

- 'The daughter (xx xx) of the death informant'

... the person probably doesn't know about this discussion and may well not want to have their name and personal info associated with it. Best to delete the name.


(I looked long and hard at your thread after you posted in July but couldn't come up with anything to add ...)

The daughter of the death informant - Margaret O'Shea now deceased - has not emailed me as promised with a yes or no about her uncle John Joseph O'Keefe. It could well be him but no good if all the elderly relatives cannot remember much about him. I will have to start on another John J O'Keefe. There were a few of them around. A breakthrough is long in coming!

So here I go - start again. What became of VERA M JOHNSON who lived at the same address in Camberwell - 27 Philip Road from 1960 to 1965 at least. Both she and John J O'Keefe were there after my uncle Henry Frederick Bass died and the lady he had been with since 1924(Lilian Mary Bass) disappeared from the address at the same time as my uncle died. Any help would be appreciated.

Malyon - That did not take long - wrong date of birth! Thanks anyway.

I received the death certificate of a Joseph John O'Keefe who died in Lewisham in May 1978. I then wrote to the informant and have discovered that she died last November. However, her daughter is in process of asking elderly relatives about the man in order to establish if he was the right one. She promised a yes or no so fingers crossed it will be yes.

Malyon - The Hackney death of a Mary Ann Bass is the next one to follow up on.

Thanks everybody.

I have just sent for the Lewisham death for a Joseph John O'Keefe. If there are no clues from it - then I am giving up. Thanks everybody.

We just don't know Yvonne. It is possible - but I don't think, as a van/lorry driver he would have had enough money to divorce Mary Ann. However it was about that time that the Lilian person made her first appearance at Philip Road. Worth following up. Thanks very much.

hi
did henry bass have a son called henry d bass there is a marriage to a lilian m applegate in 1943

Hello Yvonne, Thanks for trying to help me. The Lilian M Bass is either Mary or Marian - according to the electoral registers. We never had a Lilian Maud. Bass is such a common name so this is a difficult one. The Mary Ann Bass death has been ruled out already - wrong date of birth. Family info tells us that Mary Ann Bass (nee Connor) and Henry Frederick who married in December 1907 did not stay together due to her running off with a policeman. This must have happened after the 1911 census as they were still together then and childless. However it looks like they did have a few goes at reconciliation as they are together in Philip Rd Camberwell 1932 to 1935. From 1936 a Lilian Marian Bass appears and from then on no Mary Ann is there. If you come up with anything else I shall be grateful. Jen

looks like her birth so she never married

Births Sep 1904 (>99%)
BASS Lilian Maud St. Olave 1d 203

could this be lilian m bass death in camberwell which is the district for peckham i lived there

LILIAN MAUD BASS
England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
Collections from
Great Britain
Country
England
County
London
Year
1985
Birth Year
1904
Event Quarter
4
District
CAMBERWELL

is this mary ann bass death if so then they must have parted

Deaths Dec 1969 (>99%)
BASS Mary Ann 4Ap1889 Hackney 5b 1784

Yes Rose, That is them and the address was actually 27 Philip Road Peckham Rye Camberwell.The man in question John J O'Keefe did not appear at the address until1955 or maybe he was there but not old enough to be on the electoral register.

Going back a bit this is the couple in 1925, I see Jennifer that you commented on there that this was Lilian Mary with Henry Frederick

Name: Mary Lilian Bass
[User-submitted-comment]
Year: 1925
County or Borough: Southwark
Ward or Division/Constituency: Camberwell
Street address: 27 Pkckham Rye

The birth is not showing on FreeBMD nor the death as above. Did you gt it from Ancestry?