Find Living Relatives

David- while you're waiting I thought this might be of interest. On the 1939 register for Courtenay Irene she's living with an Eliza Smith (dob 21 July 1861), I believe Eliza is her mother Lilie.

A few snippets from the newspapers:-

Sheffield Independent - Thursday 30 May 1935

KINGS THANKS FOR POEM SENT BY SHEFFIELD WOMAN

Mrs Lilie Smith of 97 Harcourt Road, Sheffield, who wrote a poem to commemorate the King's Silver Jubilee and sent it to the King has received an acknowledgement thanking her.
The reply reads:-
The Private Secretary is commanded to convey to Mrs Lilie Smith the King's thanks for her expression of loyalty and good wishes in connection with the Silver Jubilee of his Majesty's Accession.

Mrs Smith is a Cornish woman and has lived in Sheffield 7 or 8 years. She has written poems on a variety of subjects.
The following is her poem on the Jubilee:
25 years of glorious reign
25 years our trust assured,
The Heart of England's quietude
For love and loyalty is stirred.
We pay our most grateful homage
To England's noble King and Queen,
That they may forever dwell
In all the nation's hearts serene.
Long may they reign, we ever pray,
With health and happiness be blessed,
That their subjects high and low,
With loving peaceful hearts may rest.
God bless our gracious King and Queen,
Let England's voices ever blend
In earnest prayers to God,
That peace and joy their lives attend.
-------------------------------------------------

Sheffield Daily Telegraph - Thursday 22 June 1939

DEATHS
SMITH- On June 20th at 99 Harcourt Road, Herbert, dearly loved husband of Lilie Smith. Interment. Crookes, 2.15. Service St John 1.15 Saturday.

My aunt would sometimes refer to Stewart's "other family" but never elaborated any further when I asked questions. In my younger days I wouldn't dare insist on answers; she would always say "best left in the past". Same with my mother:
Austin, from the 1939 register you picked up that they lived in Southampton with William and Elsie Botting. They must have moved in with them when they married. I was born in Winchester and after that they all moved and opened a tearoom business called 'The Golden Lantern'. After that we moved to 33 Liphook Road, Shottermill. Although the Bottings were not blood relatives, they were always Uncle Will and Auntie Elsie and as I was growing up they were part of our family. I guess my father was in Southampton because he worked for the railways and that is how he was connected to Will Botting. But I'm not sure where he was before that. Could have been Sheffield where his sister Irene was living when she was an artist teacher; they grew up in Yorkshire so it is likely that he was in that neck of the woods before Southampton, but he was also a naval officer during WW2 - I have photographs of him wearing his uniform. I've been racking my brains trying to remember any snippets of conversation I used to have with her where place names would have come up but it is a long time ago and nothing comes to mind.
It is very likely that there will be many records of Stewart Smith as opposed to Underwood Smith. I've also been in contact with several people who have various ancestors in common with me through the Courtenay family line and got as far as my 3 x great grandmother via the family tree of a lady who tells me this is also her 4 x great grandmother. I'm waiting to hear from her for further info down the line.
Watch this space!!
;-)

I would wait until the marriage certificate come to see if it provides any extra clues- whether it says divorced/ widowed/ marriage dissolved (or mentions any name change).

To change your first and surname implies to me that perhaps there was something in his past that he'd rather forget or that he did not wish to be found.

I don't see any marriages (in England or Wales) under his original name of Stewart Underwood Smith- However, there are possible previous marriages in the names Stewart Smith and Peter Underwood, which, once we know what the 1939 marriage certificate says, might be worth exploring. (Some of these marriages can probably be ruled out as the couples can be found on the 1939 census or, are still having children after 1939).

You said that your mother and Aunt would never talk about his 'other' family- yet you are certain there was another family and know that your father changed his name.- I just wonder how you knew these things if they were never spoken about?

I also wonder if there are any other snippets of information you can remember that might be useful? Perhaps how your parents met, or why they married in Southampton, or how your father came to be in Southampton? Had he been in Southampton long? Is it likely his 'other' family were in Sheffield or closer by?

I know it's a lot of questions, but sometimes the smallest titbit of information can help.

Please let us know the details of the marriage certificate- I think you have us all hooked!

I have ordered the marriage certificate for Peter Underwood and Audrey Dyer, and I am advised that it will arrive by 29th March. In the meantime, my search for my father's first marriage goes on and I would welcome some advice as to where I should be looking please. I'm still a novice at this!

H'mmm, interesting!

No, I'm not aware of any particular reason as to why he changed his name, and that is part of the mystery!

Regarding Stewart's first family, might there be a paticular reason why he changed his name?

Thanks for your advice Austin. I will order the certificate and will let you know what it says. Yes of course he must have changed his name before the marriage if that is how he's registered.

Hello David. If it were my family, I would get get the marriage certificate for your parents. If your father was previously married it should say 'widowed', 'divorced' or 'marriage dissolved'.

Above you have put that he changed his name after marrying your mother- However, if he changed his name, this happened before married in 1939.

You can order the marriage certificate here:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Using the names, page and volume number (below) certificates cost £9.25 including postage.

Marriages Sep 1939
Dyer Audrey F M Underwood Southampton Vol: 2c Page: 256
Underwood Peter Dyer Southampton Vol: 2c Page: 256
----------------------------------------

Oh- and just to add the transcription on the 1939 register for Courtenay I Smith is wrong- it does list her as female.

Wow! I'm absolutely gobsmacked by all your replies and the speed with which I received them. Thank you all so much for all the info you gave me. There is a lot there that is new to me, but I will answer the questions that each of you asked as far as I know. So.......

Kathleen Bell - Yes my father's birth details are correct; 1899, Truro, Cornwall
He died at the time he lived at 33 Liphook Road in the Parish of Shottermill. By that time he was known as Peter Underwood, changed from Stewart Underwood Smith after his marriage to my mother

Gwyn in Kent - Marriages Sep 1939 - Dyer Audrey FM.... Underwood.... Southampton 2c 256
Underwood Peter ...... Dyer.......Southampton 2c 256
Yes, definitely my parents

AustinQ - I'm afraid I do not have my parents' marriage certificate, in fact I have no certificates at all for my father, ie birth, marriage or death! Your info has added a little more to the story relating to both Stewart and Irene, thank you! Curious to know why Irene is down as Male in the 1939 records. She was definitely an Artist and a very good one, I have several of her pictures. Father's WW1 Army Service Record is appreciated. He also served in WW2 when he was torpedoed and left a very long time in the water; and he became very ill with pneumonia which left him with a very weak chest which eventually contributed to his death at age 51.

Greyghost - yes his grandmother's maiden name was James. She comes from a long line of Courtenay's which I have traced back to Edward the First and beyond that. The females were always given the middle name Courtenay which they carried through their marriages, but Stewart's middle name of Underwood came from his grandmother's maiden name (Herbert Smith's mother) as per info supplied by AustinQ.

PricklyHolly - To clear the confusion, Who is Peter Underwood? Stewart Underwood Smith did indeed change his name to Peter Underwood after his second marriage to my mother Audrey Dyer. It is rumoured it was done by Deed Poll. So yes, that is the same person at 33 Liphook Road. Thank you!

AustinQ - Re Anne Martha Underwood-Smith. Interesting! Could she be Stewart's first wife? Would it be possible to dig up any other info relating to her?
Re Anna M Under-Smith on the 1964/1965 electoral register with a Charles J Smith. Could she be their daughter and maybe my long-lost half-sister? (and half-brother, or nephew?)
This is exactly where the missing pieces lie.
THANK YOU all once again



:-D :-D :-D

Marriages Dec 1856 (>99%)
Hocking Eliza Helston 5c 412
James Samuel Henry Helston 5c 412

Marriages Mar 1842 (>99%)
SMITH John Lexden 12 157
UNDERWOOD Thirza Lexden 12 157


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Wivenhoe, Lexden, Essex, England

John Smith Head Married Male 35 1816 Malster Imploying 1 Man Wivenhoe, Essex, England
Transcription
Thirza Smith Wife Married Female 35 1816 Malsters Wife Brightlingsea, Essex, England
Transcription
Walter Edward Smith Son - Male 1 1850 - Wivenhoe, Essex, England
Transcription
Tamathine Rand Servant Unmarried Female 18 1833 House Servant Elmstead, Essex,

Age also out for Herbert:

Birth:
SMITH, HERBERT (Mother's maiden name: UNDERWOOD)
GRO Reference: 1858 D Quarter in LEXDEN & WINSTREE UNION Volume 04A Page 241
-----------------------------------------------------

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Wivenhoe, Lexden, Essex, England

John Smith Head Married Male 45 1816 Porter Merchant Wivenhoe, Essex,
Thirza Smith Wife Married Female 45 1816 - Brightlingsea, Essex, England
Arthur J Smith Son - Male 13 1848 - Wivenhoe, Essex, England
Walter S Smith Son - Male 11 1850 - Wivenhoe, Essex, England
Ellen M Smith Daughter - Female 8 1853 - Wivenhoe, Essex, England
Alfred H Smith Son - Male 6 1855 - Wivenhoe, Essex, England
Herbert Smith Son - Male 2 1859 - Wivenhoe, Essex, England
---------------------------------------------

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cambridge Road, Barking, Romford, Essex, England

John Smith Head - Male 55 1816 - Essex, England
Thirza Smith Wife - Female 55 1816 - Essex, England
Alfred Underwood Son - Male 16 1855 - Essex, England
Herbert Smith Son - Male 13 1858 - Essex, England
John R Corbett Boarder - Male 26 1845 - Ireland

Age for Lilie a little different to what you have:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Abersham Road, Hackney, London, England

Herbert Smith Head Married Male 31 1860 Grocers Assistant Wivenhoe, Essex,
Lilie Smith Wife Married Female 28 1863 - Helston, Cornwall, England
Irene Smith Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Dorset, England
--------------------------------------

Marriages Mar 1888 (>99%)
Hocking Thomas Helston 5c 233
JAMES Lilie Helston 5c 233 <<<<<<<<<<<
ROBERTS Phillippa Charlotte Helston 5c 233
SMITH Herbert Helston 5c 233<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-----------------------------------

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Boden, St Anthony in Meneage, Helston, Cornwall, England

Samuel H James Head Married Male 47 1834 Farmer 35 Acres St Keverne, Cornwall,
Eliza James Wife Married Female 48 1833 - Manaccan, Cornwall, England
Lilie James Daughter Single Female 19 1862 - St Anthony, Cornwall, England
John C James Son Single Male 17 1864 (Wesl Local Preacher) St Anthony, Cornwall
Annie James Daughter Single Female 15 1866 - St Anthony, Cornwall,
Elizabeth M James Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar St Anthony, Cornwall,
Cordelia B James Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar St Anthony, Cornwall,
Richard James Brother Married Male 55 1826 Farm Servant Indoor St Keverne, Cornwall,
------------------------------------
Death:
First name(s) LILIE
Last name SMITH
Gender Female
Birth year 1863
Age 85
Death quarter 2
Death year 1948
District Sheffield
County Yorkshire
Volume 2D Page 59

Me too!!

:-D

I had the same thought.

..Just sent one Prickles...

x

As David is a new member.....i will send him a PM to let him know he has received replies.

Prickles. ;o))

It looks as though he did- but I think we need David to get back to us.

I did wonder if this lady was connected somehow? But can't see anything else for her:

Death: (Also registered under Anne Martha U Smith)
First name(s) ANNE MARTHA
Last name UNDERWOOD-SMITH
Gender Female
Birth day 11 August 1910
Death quarter 2
Death year 1988
District Reading & Wokingham
Register number 688
County Berkshire
Volume 19 Page 297


EDIT:- Not sure if this is connected, there is an Anna M Under-Smith on the 1964/ 1965 electoral register with a Charles J Smith.

I am confused.

Who is Peter Underwood?

Did Stewart Underwood Smith change his name to Peter Underwood?

Peter Underwood in the Surrey, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1987
Name: Peter Underwood
Birth Year: abt 1900
Abode: 33 Liphook Road
Burial Age: 51
Burial Date: 21 Feb 1951
Archive Provided Parish: Shottermill, St Stephen
Parish as it Appears: Shottermill

Stewart's birth from the GRO register shows surname as Smith and mmn as James

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
SMITH, STEWART UNDERWOOD JAMES
GRO Reference: 1899 M Quarter in TRURO Volume 05C Page 132