Military Chat

Could some please help me. I'm trying to find where John Harley died he was my grand mothers brother.John was born 1889 Brownhills Staff.He was a private in the 1st Battalion South Staffs Regement he joined 17/5/1906 solder number 7997, 1911 census finds him in Gibralter South Barracks. He Serviced from 1906 to 1915

http://www.1914-1918.net/sstaffs.htm

(some info. on Regiments)

(says 3rd Battalion on Army Record)

Chris :)

http://www.staffordshireregimentmuseum.com/research.html

(above might have more Regiment info.)

From his army record on Findmypast he had five sisters and a brother. Have you tried to locate the families of any of these siblings to see if anyone of them knows where he died?

Which of his sisters was your grandmother?

Kath. x

This looks like the marriage of his sister Comfort:-

First name(s) COMFORT
Last name HARLEY
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1916
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ COMFORT HARLEY married
William Chandler
Spouse's last name Chandler
District West Bromwich
District number -
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 1201

These look like they could be children from that marriage:-

First name(s) WILLIAM V
Last name CHANDLER
Birth year 1917
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name Harley
District West Bromwich
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 1229

and:-

First name(s) BERNARD
Last name CHANDLER
Birth year 1925
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name Harley
District West Bromwich
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 1306

and:-

First name(s) CYNTHIA B
Last name CHANDLER
Birth year 1927
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name Harley
District West Bromwich
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 1259

and:-

First name(s) FLORENCE B
Last name CHANDLER
Birth year 1930
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's last name Harley
District West Bromwich
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 1152

If you follow any of these forward and see if you can find a living relative (if you haven't already done this) then someone might have some information that will help you.

Kath. x

(below would be family reference)

Chris :)

Marriages Dec 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Arblaster Jemima Walsall 6b 1077
Harley James William Walsall 6b 1077


HARLEY, COMFORT (ARBLASTER)
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in LICHFIELD Volume 06B Page 467


HARLEY, JOHN (ARBLASTER)
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in LICHFIELD Volume 06B Page 443


Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1889

HARLEY John (ARBLASTER) Lichfield (held at Newcastle RO) Newcastle-Under-Lyme L/62/318

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/index.php


27 May 1892 - Lichfield Mercury - Lichfield, Staffordshire, England

LICHFIELD COUNTY PETTY SESSIONS.
James Wm. Harley, miner, Brownhills, was summoned for threats towards his wife Jemima Harley, on May 13th.— Complainant said that defendant, who was in beer at the time, threatened to smash her face. She was still afraid that he would do her some injury. The magistrates bound each party over in £5 to keep the peace for six months.

He seems to have survived WW1

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
John Harley
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1889
Birth Place: Brownhills, Staffordshire, England
Age: 30
Document Year: 1919
Regimental Number: 19921
Regiment Name: South Staffordshire Regiment
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 5

John Harley Self (Head)
William Harley Brother
Edith Sister
Alice Sister
Pomfort Sister - Comfort

Full address - 154 Wolverhampton Road, Walsall
Re-enlistment Declaration signed 19 Feb 1919, Makina, Mesopotamia
Discharged 20 Oct 1920 - Deafness caused by a Sand Storm

Do you have his exact date of birth? We might be able to identify him on the 1939 register if he lived until 29 Sep 1939.

Although not in Staffordshire, have you considered these?

John Harley
Birth Date: abt 1890
Date of Registration: Dec 1959
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Southwell
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 440

The only death in Staffs (as per Ancestry) has a middle initial
John E Harley
Birth Date: abt 1890
Date of Registration: Mar 1931
Age at Death: 41
Registration district: Stoke on Trent
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 5b
Page: 157

Other entries have more of an age differential

John Harley abt 1887 Sep 1948 Stockport Cheshire
John Harley abt 1887 Mar 1952 Leeds Yorkshire West Riding
John Harley abt 1887 Dec 1956 Oldham Lancashire

My great grandmother was Jemima her daughter Comfort my grandmother Cynthia my mother Johns birtih 1889 that is him with his sister at 154 WOlverhamton Rd That shocked me about my great grand parent in court Jemima ended up in Burntwood Asylum after Williams death from cancer none of the other John Harley's are him I have all the info for Jemmia Comfort's marriges all I wanted was to know where John was . Thank you for finding him would be greatfull if you could find a bit more 1839 Sue

154 Wolverhampton Road still exists, it's in the group of houses between Raleigh St and Pargeter St. My primary school was on Wolverhampton Rd on the opposite side, now all razed to widen the road as it's the main road from Walsall to junction 10 of the M6.

Those were posh houses when they were built lol. They have a big garden at the front, most of the Victorian houses along there have their front doors on the street. :-D

Not sure but is it possible that this is John in the 1939 register (transcribed as Herley):-

Herley Household (4 People)
287 Bloxwich Road , Walsall C.B., Staffordshire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER

John Herley 06 Feb 1889 Male Coal Hewer Below Heavy Widowed 114 1
John Herley 02 Jul 1913 Male Tube Straighter Heavy Single 114 2
Agnes Loftus (Herley) 29 Nov 1923 Female Unpaid Domestic Single 114 4
Rose (Evelyn) Carrington (Herley) 25 Mar 1926 Female At School Single 114 5

There is at least 1 closed record on the image but possibly 3 (not sure if the last two are with this household or a separate household).

Kath. x

I don't think it's the John Herley above- there are no mention of any marriage or children on his military file to 1919.

Did wonder about this- but is one year out (although Dec birth would fit with index)

Harley Household (5 People) 33 Thorney Abbey Road , Southwell R.D., Nottinghamshire, England

John Harley 02 Dec 1888 Male Colliery Stone Worker (Below) Heavy Worker Married
Laura Harley 07 Nov 1898 Female Household Duties Married
Maurice (Hordem) Harley 11 Apr 1922 Male Colliery Surface Worker Single
Arthur Smith 17 Mar 1873 Male Invalid Been Confined To Bed For 15 Years Married
Maria Smith 24 Jul 1875 Female Household Duties Married
--------------------------------------------------

They married in Staffs:
First name(s) JOHN
Last name HARLEY
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1920
Spouse: Laura M Smith
Spouse's last name Smith
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B Page 1374
---------------------------------

Also fits the 1959 Southwell death posted by Detective
----------------------------------

His wife, Laura Majestic, died in 1984 Nottinghamshire

Son, Maurice, was born in Walsall and died in 1974 Mansfield, Nottinghamshire

No Agnes or John Harley born in correct years for the Bloxwich family.

Lichfield isn't far from Walsall and there were coal mines in that area - to tie up with his job in Southwell.

He was registered as born in the Lichfield area 1st quarter of 1890 which could mean a December birth 1889 but in 1939 his birth is down as December 1888 - maybe not sure of birth date whoever gave the info. Otherwise think it's a good find AustinQ.

Thank you all I know Lichfield is not far from Walsall my brother and sister live there about's we know all these areas well .Jemima's grandfather Thomas Woodhouse was a landlord of the Anchor Inn Ogley Hay Rd. Also a farmland owner, This may the pub that James Harley drank in h they lived on the Ogley Hay Rd. When he got drunk and ended in court. Jonh you say went to Mesopitania it is in Irak

Yes - he re-enlisted in Makina, Mesopotamia as it was then.

Mesopotamia was later renamed as Iraq. Its all to do with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the winners dividing up the spoils of war. You could probably say that the Middle Eastern troubles were caused by the aftermath of WW1.