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Frederick Young Durham Light Infantry Lookup

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Jo1015

Jo1015 Report 10 Nov 2017 19:35

Hi All,

Would be so grateful if anyone could share any information on my ancestor Frederick Young born 1884 who I believe served with the Durham light infantry. Also his brother John Alfred Young bn 1887?

Many thanks in advance

Jo

Maddie

Maddie Report 11 Nov 2017 11:31

??????
John A
Last name Young
Year 1914-20
Service number 73213
Rank Private
Regiment Durham Light Infantry
Service record Soldier Number: 73213, Rank: Private, Corps: Durham Light Infantry
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6056338
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/22
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal rolls and honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Frederick
Last name Young
Year 1914-20
Service number 20/809
Rank Private
Regiment Durham Light Infantry
Service record Soldier Number: 20/809, Rank: Private, Corps: Durham Light Infantry
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6053243
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/22
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards

Frederick
Last name Young
Year 1914-20
Service number 18558
Rank Private
Regiment Durham Light Infantry
Service record Soldier Number: 18558, Rank: Private, Corps: Durham Light Infantry
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6053244
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/22
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal rolls and honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None


did frederick have a middle name

Jo1015

Jo1015 Report 22 Nov 2017 18:00

just seen this reply maddie, thanks so much. I think Frederick may have had the middle name William :) Thanks so much - are the medal cards worth buying do you think>?

mgnv

mgnv Report 18 Jan 2018 19:53


Since there's doubt as to which medal card is your guy, I would suggest that you check out the libraries in your area to see if any have an Ancestry subscription.

You could check to see if there are service or pension records for any of these guys (or any other likelly Frederick Youngs).
70% of the service records were lost in a fire, but you might get lucky. Theserecords often contain details like n.o.k. that easily confirm or rule out that record.

You can look these up via:
Service https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1219
Pension https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1114
Medal https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1262
SWB https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2456


This is from the Ancestry medal search screen:

Medals awarded during WWI included:
1914 Star (Mons Star) was awarded for service in France or Flanders (Belgium) between 5 August and 22 November 1914

1914-15 Star was awarded for service in France or Flanders (Belgium) between 23 November 1914 and 31 December 1915, or for service in any theater between 5 August 1914 and 31 December 1915

Allied Victory Medal (Victory Medal) was awarded for service in any operational theater between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. It was issued to individuals who received the 1914 and 1914-15 Stars and to most individuals who were issued the British War Medal. The medal was also awarded for service in Russia (1919-1920) and post-war mine clearance in the North Sea (1918-1919).

British War Medal was awarded to both servicemen and civilians that either served in a theater of war, or rendered service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. It was also awarded for service in Russia, and post-war mine clearance in the Baltic, the Black Sea, and the Caspian Sea between 1919 and 1920.

Silver War Badge (SWB) was awarded to servicemen who became ill or were wounded while serving in a theater of war or at home


What you really want to know is what his unit was - there are a couple of dozen DLI battalions with quite varied WW1 experiences.
There were 2 regular army bns - one stayed in India and the 2nd bn went to France/Flanders - this would be the only one eligible for the 1914 star.
Several bns would be eligible for the 1915 star - they willhave a date of entry to a theatre of war on the medal card - this date might(indirectly) identify his division.
My wife's gt uncle from Middlesboro joined thhe 1/5 bn DLI - I only found this info from his gravestone via the CWGC site.
My grandad's medal card doesn't show his unit, but he has a supplementary medal card which does show he was in the 447 field coy RE so he served in the same division.

Lets take 1/5 DLI as the unit Iwish to trace.

Using
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/durham-light-infantry/
I can see this bn was in the 50th div, usually as one of 4 bms in 150th brigade, which was one of 3 infantry brigades in the 50th division.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/50th-northumbrian-division/

In the spring of 1918, conscription hasn't really kicked in yet and produced many trained replacements, so the army had to do something.
What they decide to do was break up 25% of its bns and reassign their men to the other 75% as replacements, along with whatever replacements were coming in thru the usual routes.
The UK and ANZACs did this for nearly all their divs - the guards div was one exception.
It wasn't the only way to go, though. The Canadians had similar problems, bu they chose to break up a recently formed 5th Can div in the UK, and use its men as repacements to the other 4 Can divs, with the 5th Can div artillery going en bloc to the Can corps.

mgnv

mgnv Report 18 Jan 2018 19:54


Each unit that's big enough produces a unit war diary - these describe on a day by day basis what the unit did.
The war diaries are held at TNA, but many have been digitized and are accessible thru Ancestry.

Go to any of the 4 Ancestry search screens I posted above. Click on the search tab in the banner bar in the page header and then "Card Catalog" then and search for the key words - war diaries - we want
UK, WWI War Diaries (France, Belgium and Germany), 1914-1920

Then browse the collection for the DLI in the 50th div - I get:

Piece 2823/2: 1/7 Durham Light Infantry (Pioneers) (1915 Dec - 1918 Jun)
Piece 2837/2: 5 Battalion Durham Light Infantry (1914 Jul - 1918 Jan)
Piece 2840: 151 Infantry Brigade (1915-1918)
Piece 2841/1-6: 151 Infantry Brigade: 8 Battalion Durham Light Infantry (1915 Apr - 1917 Sep)
Piece 2842/1-4: 151 Infantry Brigade: 8 Battalion Durham Light Infantry (1917 Oct - 1918 Nov)


Alternatively, I could browse for Various (infantry Brigades, 50th Division) in the 50th Div - I get:

Piece 2826/1-5: 149 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1915 Apr - 1917 Apr)
Piece 2827/1-5: 149 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1917 May - 1919 Jun)
Piece 2832/1-3: 150 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1915 Jul - 1917 Jul)
Piece 2833/1-4: 150 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1917 Aug - 1919 Jun)
Piece 2836: 150 Infantry Brigade (1915 - 1919)
Piece 2838/1-5: 151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1915 Apr - 1917 Apr)
Piece 2839/1-5: 151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1917 May - 1919 May)


If I click on these hits without a sub, I just get invited to subscribe. I could do this at a library, though.

I could look these hits up at TNA site
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Here's a lookup of wo95/2839 - the last hit:
1 - 6 of 6 results
151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters. (Described at item level)
Date: 01 May 1917 - 31 May 1919
Reference: WO 95/2839

151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters.
Date: 01 May 1917 - 31 August 1917
Reference: WO 95/2839/1

151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters.
Date: 01 September 1917 - 31 December 1917
Reference: WO 95/2839/2

151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters.
Date: 01 January 1918 - 30 April 1918
Reference: WO 95/2839/3

151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters.
Date: 01 May 1918 - 31 August 1918
Reference: WO 95/2839/4

151 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters.
Date: 01 September 1918 - 31 May 1919
Reference: WO 95/2839/5

Cicking on, say, the last item gets me TNA viewing options.
There's a set of 135 free low image images that are completely useless for viewing outside TNA, plus:

Ordering and viewing options
£3.50
Download size approximately 33 MB. Download format PDF

Although I don't mind sitting in a library and downloading the 35 images of my grandad's service record, plus the 3 images of his medal cards and emailing those to myself, it looks like the war diaries run into 100s of pages.
I can highlight a block of files in my (library) downloads folder, and right-click on these and send them to a compressed (zipped) folder , which eases the emailing burden.

I know this is not directly comparable, since Canadian records are wordier, and include appendices, but my dad's cousin served with the Canadian infantry.
The 13th bn CEF's war diaries total 1997 pages, and the 3rd infantry bde CEF's total 5390 pages.
Even half this is a pain in the library.
I suggest you sign up for a free account with Ancestry, and check the receive news (or whatever they call it) box.
Periodically, Ancestry has free week-ends on subsets of their records, and you would receive notice of these.
Around this coming Armistice Day (11/1/18), I'll bet Ancestry makes their military records free for a few days.

Elizabeth

Elizabeth Report 24 Jan 2018 16:53

the Frederick that Maddie posted with regt no 20/809. His mother was Elizabeth, don't know if that helps narrow it down

Maddie

Maddie Report 25 Jan 2018 13:28

is this them in 1901
38, Rectory Place, Gateshead, Durham, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
William Young Head Married Male 49 1852 Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Railway Pass Guard
Transcription
Margaret Young Wife Married Female 49 1852 Durham, Durham, England -
Transcription
Edward Young Son Single Male 20 1881 Hexham, Northumberland, England Grocers Assistant
Transcription
Annie Young Daughter Single Female 19 1882 Durham, Durham, England -
Transcription
Frederick Young Son Single Male 17 1884 Durham, Durham, England Rly Engine Cleaner
Transcription
John A Young Son Single Male 14 1887 Durham, Durham, England -

if so see Elizabeths post above

Name: John Alfred Young
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 3 Apr 1887
Baptism Place: Durham, England
Father: William Young
Mother: Margaret
FHL Film Number: 1894141

Name: Frederick William Young
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 25 Oct 1883
Baptism Place: Durham, England
Father: William Young
Mother: Margaret
FHL Film Number: 1564532

Jo1015

Jo1015 Report 25 Jan 2018 14:28

Hi everyone thanks so much for all your help. There’s stacks of information that I need to take some time out to go through properly, however Maddie that’s them, mother Margaret and father William :)