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Following on from the previous discussions. I have now received 3 Certificates that have raised more questions than answers.

1) Esther Jenkins married Joseph Ellis on 25/04/1886, on the MC it states his Father was dead.

2) Elizabeth Ellis' BC 25/5/1891- shows that her Mother is Esther Ellis formerly Jenkins - not Sarah Tuvey as I expected. Her Father though is a Joseph Ellis deceased. Joseph died in March 1891

3) On Elizabeth's Brother Frederick's BC 28/01/1898. Father is shown as Frederick Ellis. Not sure if he was Joseph's Brother.

The only MC for Frederick b1854 is with a Sarah Tuvey. I can't find a MC for him and Esther. Not sure if they are the same Frederick or not.

I have also been looking for a Census where both Frederick b1854 and Thomas b1863 appear, to confirm same parents names.

I hope you can help me please

Thank you

Definately in 1901 census.... just input S Ellis (or just Ellis in the surname section) born 1854 France and that should bring it up

Hi Londonbelle,

I have looked at the 1901 census, but have been unable to find that entry for S Ellis. Am I looking at the wrong census?

Thanks

If Frederick was married before he would not have been able to legally marry Esther until his first wife died......that might be why we are having a problem finding a marriage of Frederick to Esther; of course, that's if Frederick did marry Sarah!

I have found a death entry for a Sarah Ann Ellis aged 45 in March 1898 in Islington.

Now I'm confused. Everything matches: age, where born. If she was in an Asylum in 1901 would my wifes Gt Grandfather have be able to remarry.

I think I'll have to get the DC to be sure.

I have found this entry in the 1901 census.....it may be something but thereagain it maybe nothing!

Name: S Ellis
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Patient
Gender: Female (married)
Where born: France "French"

Civil Parish: Dartford
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Dartford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: Charwoman

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Dartford
ED, institution, or vessel: London County Asylum

Have you been able to find the maiden name for Esther/ Hester or have I missed it. Or the date of their wedding. On the 1911 Cesus it shows they were married for 25 yrs - but that can't be right, maybe they didn't want Elizabeth to know .

Frederick's baptism....mother still Hester/Esther

Name: Frederick Ellis
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1899
Baptism Date: 5 Feb 1899
Born 28 Jan 1898
Father's name: Frederick Ellis
Mother's name: Hester Ellis
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden
Address: 114 Arlington Rd

This looks like the baptism for James....mother still Esther

Name: Francis James Ellis
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1901
Baptism Date: 27 Jan 1901
Born: 28 Jan 1900
Father's name: Frederick Ellis occ Coal Porter
Mother's name: Estha Ellis (image states 'Esther')
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden

Address: 249 Arlington Rd

So she could have been his first wife ! that explains the 14yr age gap between his and Esther/ Hester.

So my wifes Great Grandmother was Sarah Ann Tuvey !!


Thanks

This likes the baptism for Violet

Name: Violet Rosina Ellis
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1902
Baptism Date: 22 May 1902
Born: 23 April 1902
Father's name: Frederick Ellis (occ Coal Porter)
Mother's name: Herber Ellis (image states 'Hester')
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Old St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Address: 78 St Pancras Sq

EDIT

But then the baptism for Daisy states mother is 'Esther'

Name: Daisy Florence Ellis
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1905
Baptism Date: 12 Jan 1905
Born: 15 Dec 1904
Father's name: Frederick Ellis occ Coal Porter
Mother's name: Esther Ellis
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Old St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Address: 78 St Pancras Sq

This one is a coal porter

Name: Frederick Ellis
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Spouse Name: Sarah Tuvey
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 22 Sep 1873
Parish: Christ Church, Somers Town
County: Middlesex
Borough: Camden
Father Name: James Ellis - coal porter
Spouse Father Name: Charles Tuvey - brick maker

Name: Elizabeth Ellis
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1893
Baptism Date: 24 Dec 1893
Father's name: Frederick Ellis
Mother's name: Sarah Ann Ellis
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Botolph without Bishopsgate
Borough: City of London

12 Norfolk Gardens
Frederick is a market porter

So might match with the Frederick Ellis and wife Sarah

have you looked at these?

1891 census - household transcription
Person: ELLIS, Hester
Address: 5, Thanet Street, St Pancras

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ELLIS, John Head Married M 34 1857 Dyer St Pancras London
ELLIS, Hester Wife Married F 24 1867 Laundrymaid St Pancras London

/????????????????????????????????????

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ellis Frederick Richard Portsea 2b 742
Wilkins Hester Portsea 2b 742

Yes, It's the same family. Elizabeth Ellis b1892 was my wifes Grandmother.

and them on 1901 census
Person: ELLIS, Fred
Address: 214, Arlington Road, St Pancras

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ELLIS, Fred Head Married M 47 1854 Coal Porter St Pancras London
ELLIS, Hester Wife Married F 33 1868 Islington London
ELLIS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 9 1892 Islington London
ELLIS, Fred Son Single M 3 1898 St Pancras London
ELLIS, James Son Single M 1 1900 St Pancras London

Yes that's the one I found.

is this the 1911 census?

Person: ELLIS, Frederick
Address: 86 Brewery Road Islington N


Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

ELLIS, Frederick Head Married M 57 1854 Coal Porter London St Pancras
ELLIS, Esther Wife Married 25 years F 44 1867 No Occupation London Islington
ELLIS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 20 1891 Potting Meat Packer London Islington
ELLIS, Frederick Son M 13 1898 No Occupation School London St Pancras
ELLIS, James Son M 11 1900 No Occupation School London St Pancras
ELLIS, Voilet Daughter M 8 1903 School London St Pancras
ELLIS, Daisy Daughter F 6 1905 School London St Pancras

Hi,

I am looking for the maiden name of Hester/Ester Ellis. I have found her on the 1901 & 1911 Census. She was married to Frederick Ellis b1854 in c1886 they had 5 Children and lived in the St Pancras area of London.

I have also looked on the 1891 Census and found a Frederick Ellis same age and same occupation - Coal Porter. His wife on this census was named Sarah and was born in France.

I'm not sure if she is the same person or just a coincidence.

grateful for any help