Genealogy Chat

maybe i got that wrong i thought they told me he'd have to renounce his faith
but the mother Charlotte may have had to renounce her community
.
.it's nice that the new middle name Miriam also has Russian overtones
i doubt if i can find out who was at the baptism .

I was told that the religion of the mother is the one that carries over .

Out of interest, what was the answer?

Considering the period, I'd have thought that if he was a practising Jew, he may have been 'shunned' by the community, but its unlikely that unless he was married in a Christian Church he would have had to renounce his faith.

The children born to a Jewish father and Gentile mother aren't Jewish by birthright, unless the mother converts. The Jewish bloodline follows that of the mother.

I went to a local synagogue to ask questions of the faith ;they were welcoming +invited me to join th shabbaat celebration i'd just interrupted . It was a beautiful service+ i got to ask my question; if my great grandad had married his christian wife he would have to have renounced his faith ,

info the 1880's deaths in Russia of George's sibling s have Fellman ;father or person registering death is Leizer- Mendel , son of Leib i'm sure i saw the name Lazarus-mendel Fellman aka Soloman Feldman on a google search with pics of a family in american (can't find now need to rush out to work .)

i'm going to phone Glamorgan archives + see if they can find the location of GJF's grave ...I wonder if he got a jewish burial or if his religion was not taken into account . maybe they can tell me if the asylun buiding still exists too. I i d like to go +take photos of all the places he lived in Wales

Theory ; Leizer is an altenative spelling for Lazurus
wife IS Mendel and Edith is name she chose to go under in GB.
if Leib is lazurus father's his 1st son could be called Leib too(traditional naming system)

george jacob is 2nd eldest .(according to his asylum admission form)1920
The ages on Rebecca's docs means she could have been born 1871
Her father is listed as a draper on her marriage certificate but unlike her father in law he is not listed as deceased so i'm assuming still alive in 1896

Why was Mendal with her eldest ? (living) son in 1891 leaving her husband with the other 8? children

;we need to get our Russian researcher from facebook "Find Russian heritage" to look up the Fellman children's 1st names .

Wirral archives looked at court records for us btwn 1900 +1908
and there was no evidence that George jacob Fellman transferred hi payments form birth mother to the adoptive family

Latvian researc showa death records of 3 Felffman?felman /Feldman
suggests father's name LEIZER-MENDEL son of Leib

many thanks to all who helped on this voyage of discovery especially alemap without who's suggestion of looking into alien registration we would not have found a picture of Alisoun+ my great grandfather .
To Marie -celeste who found the newspaper articles + described the content so delicately
.lancashire Ann & Flip for jacobstadt /kurland details
Reggie for making sure we get our facts straight + didn't repeat threads !

Information about George jacob Fellman's parents confirmed from his sister Rebecca's death certificate 1960; Lazurus and Edith Fellman m.s Landsmann both listed as deceased .

Rebecca + George's parents are Lazurus Fellman draper and Edith Landsmann
I'll post when I have the details

Rebecca Fellman's Husband Benjamin Bloch was a picture dealer as was his father Elias Bloch who died in Dundee in 1896 same year as their marriage ;
This ties in with George Jacob Fellman being an art collector rather than a debt collector from 1906 to 1920
a 2nd newspaper article about his Dundee1906 court case described him as an artist ;but not a producer simply an agent.

can't find any record of George Jacob's or Rebecca +their 10siblings arrival in GB tho all the documents confirm George came in 1891 all say from Russia
;his medical papers gives town as Riga rather than Jakopstadt (could be admin district or port of departure)

ps Romany Rose have you posted your own topic on find ancestors with your ancestors names . nearly all the pointers I had came from members on here then i went and checked the most plausible leads and some of the vague possibilty ones too

The affiliation order was from a court case where my great grandmother Lottie Roberts took the father of her child to court for payments and was awarded them .she was born in Birkenhead so.I phoned Wiirral record office then emailed and they found the record of this case.. and were very helpful
To obtain naturalisation papers.I had to hope that George jacob Fellman was still in the same county as he was in 1911 census this time it was south glamorgan county that came up trumps. An email or phone call to see if the relevent record office holds the naturalisation papers for your grandfather and his father may be the best start . Good Luck
ps Thanks jax school records from 1890's may help find GJ's siblings if they came to GB at the same time as him .

Alisoun, how did you find the affiliation order? My grandfather was Swedish, (and his father poss from Latvia) and was naturalised in the UK between 1949-56 I think...but cant find any info.

You cannot see the marriage cert...there were two marriages on a page , I left the other couple there as it didn't actually pair them up, so she could of married Abraham Landsman for all I knew at the time I posted it,

Just checked 1911 census and Abraham married Annie

Just to add found on LancashireBMD



FELLMAN Rebecca BLACK Benjamin Manchester, New Synagogue/Beth Hamedrash Synagogue Manchester 515/3/7

This looks interesting...unless you have already looked there

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_history/462/family_history/13

Rebbecca Bloch nee Fellman was living with her husband Benjamin and children in Dundee on 1901 and 1911 census .......could explain why her brother went there to sell postcards in 1906 .
The other George Feldmon?Feldman family also have links to manchester/glasgow and dundee . so I'll keep there details in case we find they are cousins fyrther back .

Thanks jax ....apparently if it is the right man he had 11 siblings so we maybe able to find his mother again with one of them on 1901 census tho i don't have access to scottish records.
the sister Rebbecca Bloch listed as living relative was in glasgow in 1920 on george fellman's asylum records .

This is the only marriage for a Rebecca Fellman

Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BLACK Benjamin Prestwich 8d 742 Scan available - click to view
BLOCH Benjamin Prestwich 8d 742 Scan available - click to view
COHEN Annie Prestwich 8d 742 Scan available - click to view
Fellman Rebecca Prestwich 8d 742 Scan available - click to view
LANDSMAN Abraham Prestwich 8d 742 Scan available - click to view

Not sure from the hospital records if this is the same man . he has no middle name , his next of kin is listed as a sister Rebecca Iblock (anyone else think that could link to the Babock surname of Dundee George Fellman's wife?)
and his birthplace is Riga Russia
and he's down as a labourer . the photo is not obviously the same man only 4 years after the registration photo was taken .
makes very interesting reading though ; i think the staff found him difficult because he requested kosher food and quarelled with other patients .

we now have a death certificate for George in march 1924 dying of TB in GlamorganCounty asylum at <Bridgend . if we can get old of the case notes we'll be able to compare photos to confirm if it is our George Jacob ..as this hospital included photos with medical records.