Find Ancestors

Steven,

Should the Joseph N Brown that Dea found in the 1911 census prove to be your man then here he is with his family in 1891 and 1901. It is an important lesson in not taking things at face value. Note the differences in the parents birthplaces between the various census returns.

1901:

Name: Joseph H Brown
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph W Brown
Mother's name: Louisa E Brown
Gender: Male
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 134
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph W Brown 42 born Bermuda occ Waiter
Louisa E Brown 38 born Enstone, London
Joseph H Brown 12
Louisa N Brown 10
Herbert W Brown 5
Arthur G Brown 4
Herbert O Lawson 23

And in 1891:
Name: Joseph N Brown
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph W Brown
Mother's name: Louisa E Brown
Gender: Male
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephan
Town: Kingston Upon Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph W Brown 31 born Burneston, Yorkshire occ Hotel waiter
Louisa E Brown 27 born St Pancras, London
Joseph N Brown 2
Louisa N Brown 11/12


This looks a possible for Joseph's parents marriage:

Marriages Sep 1887 (>99%)
BROWN Joseph William Pancras 1b 142
East Louisa Ellen Pancras 1b 142

Did your Herbert have an older sister called Charlotte?

I have found this birth:

Births Mar 1908
Brown Charlotte Walters Sculcoates 9d 133

Unfortunately, she is not with parents on 1911:

COWARD, Mary Ellen Wife Married 13 years F 41 1870 Teignmouth Devon
BROWN, Charlotte Walters Great Aunt F 3 1908 Hull Yorkshire

RG14PN28679 RG78PN1648 RD521 SD6 ED22 SN31

Registration District:
Sculcoates Sub District:
Drypool Enumeration District:
22 Parish:
Sculcoates

Address:
17 East St Hull County:
Yorkshire (East riding)

I 'suspect' that Mary Ellen is the 'Great Aunt', NOT Charlotte?

I am sure there must be a connection somewhere but I haven't found it yet ?

Dea x

P.S. - Have you sent for that birth cert?

Dea x

I have looked on cenus's 1891, 1901 and 1911 but as he isn't using his middle name, I cannot pin down a Joseph Norman on any of them and too many of the other 'Josephs' 'could' be him!

We will have to wait for Herbert's birth cert which will hopefully give Joseph's occupation to help us.

Dea x

P.S. - How do you know that Herbert had the middle name of 'Walters'??

Dea x

dea

this is a possibility, keighley in bradford area ???

i know herbert was born in beverly , hull
and joseph and lillian married in SCULCOTES which is also hull .

would you have access to 1891 /1901 census this may say when he moved from keighley (if he ever did)

steve

If it is Joseph Norman, then I had found this birth which is close by?

Births Sep 1886
Brown Joseph Norman Keighley 9a 207

Dea x

dea
i think i now have lillians parents (arthur william and rebbecca ann) woop !!

but cant find anything on joseph n (norman i believe) brown - only one in sunderland !!!! but does not seem to tie in for some reason

getting a bit frustrated

steve

add on herbert had middle name (we think) of walters we dont know if this is a middle name or the name of 'some other' male attached to llilian ???

Thank you Steven,

If you have several threads on the same people we all get a little frustrated when we spend ages looking for something and then find it has already been found by someone else and posted on the other thread so we have wasted our time.

Stick to this one and we will do our best to help you find what you need.

Do you know if Herbert's parents split up or did they stay together, as I have found a death for Joseph but it is Hampshire? - Also, you say that his mother was known as Mrs Allison, which gives the impression that she had 'assumed' her maiden name?

Do you have Herbert's marriage cert, which would give his father's name and occupation ?

Would Lilian have died in 1975?

What other info do you have, no matter how insignificant it appears?


Dea x

other thread deleted

sorry dea

steve

Steven,

As there is more info on here than on your other thread which you started yesterday (naughtly... slap hands!!!), could you please delete your other thread to save people looking up the same info twice.

Thanks,

Dea x

I 'feel' there is a very good chance it will be this Joseph??

Births Jun 1888
BROWN Joseph Norris Sculcoates 9d 220
..................................

1911 Census:

BROWN, Joseph William Head Married M 52 1859 Baker Hull
BROWN, Louisa Ellen Wife Married 23 years F 47 1864 Hull
BROWN, Joseph Morre Son Single M 22 1889 Baker Hull (Joseph NORRIS on image) ***
BROWN, Louisa Norah Daughter Single F 20 1891 Hull
BROWN, Herbert Watson Son Single M 15 1896 Railway Clerk Hull
BROWN, Arthur Gordon Son M 14 1897 School Hull
BROWN, Leonard Baden Son M 10 1901 School Hull


RG14PN28708 RG78PN1649 RD521 SD7 ED21 SN120

Registration District:
Sculcoates Sub District:
East Sculcoates Enumeration District:
21 Parish:
Sculcoates

Address:
64a Worthing St Hull County:
Yorkshire (East riding)

Of course, you will only find out when you have the details from Herbert's birth cert!

Dea x

again thank you
steve

No secret. The information has come from 3 sites:

www.freebmd.org.uk A free site and very easy to use.

www.ancestry.co.uk Subsciption needed

www.findmypast.co.uk Subsciption needed

Have fun

jonesy - a million thanks you have done in less than an hour what iv'e been trying to do for days (HA HA)

But i still need to know, how you found this info out !!!

unless it is a well guarded secret - ha ha

regards steve

Her name would have been Lilian Allison before her marriage. Unfortunately there were about 9 Joseph Brown's of roughly appropriate age living in the Hull area in 1911.

The only sure way to discover exactly who Herbert's parents were will be to obtain a copy of his birth certificate. You can purchase a copy from www.gro.gov.uk for £9.25

The way that you see the marriage registration displayed is:

The persons surname (Allison). forename (Lilian), Their marriage partners surname (Brown).

jonesey looks good !! :)

would her name have been lillian allison brown before marrage and him being joseph n brown ??????

tell me if im being thick

AGAIN - where do you all get this info ????

thank you

steve

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
BROWN Herbert W Allison Beverley 9d 187

Possible parents:

Marriages Dec 1913 (>99%)
Allison Lilian Brown Sculcoates 9d 365
Brown Joseph N Allison Sculcoates 9d 365

If correct then this may be Lilian in 1911:

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
ALLISON, Arthur William Head Married
34 years M 55 1856 Bank Clerk Lincolnshire Barton on Humber VIEW
ALLISON, Rebecca Ann Wife Married F 57 1854 Yorkshire Hull VIEW
ALLISON, Emily Daughter Single F 28 1883 Yorkshire Withernsea VIEW
ALLISON, Lilian Daughter Single F 22 1889 Dress Maker Yorkshire Hull VIEW
ALLISON, Sidney Son Single M 21 1890 Painter House Yorkshire Hull VIEW
ALLISON, Frank Son Single M 17 1894 Bank Clerk Yorkshire Hull VIEW
ALLISON, Doris Daughter F 5 1906 Yorkshire Hull VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
28713 Reference:
RG14PN28713 RG78PN1650 RD521 SD8 ED2 SN269

Registration District:
Sculcoates Sub District:
West Sculcoates Enumeration District:
2 Parish:
Sculcoates

Address:
19 Duesberg St Hull

Bit more for ya

mother known as Mrs Allison

herbert born 4th may 1914 beverley / hull

That narrows the field down considerably. If born 14th of May his birth should have been registered in the Apr/May/Jun quarter. There were only 2 Herbert Brown birth registrations during that quarter:

Name: Herbert Brown
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's Maiden Name: Hall
District: Derby
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 1279

Name: Herbert Brown
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's Maiden Name: Brown
District: Corwen
County: Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 620

Gut feeling tells me that the former is the most likely.

This information is being found at Ancestry.

JONESEY
THAT IS HIM .......................
just got the info the same time you sent that through !!!
can i ask where you found it and can you find his parents names ????

again thank you

steve

he was born beverley in hull

tryin to get info for his exact date of birth

died in sheffield definate 1994

patchem / jonesey i WILL return many thanks

steve