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Hi,

i'm trying to find out if John O'Donnell, his wife Mary nee Cotter and their daughter Johanna (Annie) were living in the UK circa 1901/1911. I have Johanna's birth cert, she was born in 1893 in Clonmel, Tipperary, Ireland. I can't find any of them in Ireland on the Irish 1901/1911 census. I have no dates of birth for either John or Mary or when they died but from family stories they were originally from Tipperary. Johanna's first marriage took place circa 1915 in Clonmel, Tipperary but i don't have this cert yet. I have all her information from 1917 onwards when she remarried and her father John was deceased by then.

I'd be grateful for any help, please.

Patrick.

On her birth certificate what was John's occupation please.
Do you know if she had any siblings?

Hi Astra,

i don't have the full birth cert yet, it's ordered. i have the 'search' document that gro Ireland issues that contains all the same details except for the father's occupation. There are no known siblings of these parents.

Patrick...If you have John O'Donnell and Mary Cotter's MC it may help in identifying if the following were the parents of Mary and another O'Donnell child.

Residents of a house 2.1 in Cross Street (Clonmel East Urban, Tipperary)

Cotter Patrick 55 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Waterford Corporation Labourer Read only Irish and English Married -

Cotter Johanna 51 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Waterford - Read Irish and English Married -

ODonnell Ellen 11 Female Grand Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read only -

I wonder if this is her


New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Johanna Odonnell
Name: Johanna Odonnell
Arrival Date: 7 Sep 1912
Birth Year: abt 1894
Birth Location: Ireland
Birth Location Other: tippevarty
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Irish
Port of Departure: Queenstown, Ireland
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Celtic
Search Ship Database: Search the Celtic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

Father: John and I think it says going to visit Aunt Maria Daley?

If you send me your email by PM I'll forward the image to you

Patrick what about this?


Residents of a house 1 in Castlegrace (Tullaghorton, Tipperary)

Show all informationSurname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses

O'Donnell John 48 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farmer Read and write Irish and English Married -
O'Donnell Mary 40 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Tipperary - Read and write Irish and English Married -
O'Donnell Johanna 4 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farmers Daughter Cannot read or write - Not Married -
O'Donnell Margaret 3 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farmers Daughter Cannot read or write - Not Married -
O'Donnell Patrick 1 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farmers Son Cannot read or write - Not Married -
Dwyer Annie 14 Female Servant Roman Catholic



Residents of a house 11 in Castlegrace (Tullaghorton, Tipperary)

Show all informationSurname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
ODonnell John 59 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Tipperary Farmer Read and write Irish and English Married - - 3 2
ODonnell Mary 50 Female Wife Roman Catholic Tipperary - Read and write Irish and English Married - 16 3 2
ODonnell Patrick 11 Male Son Roman Catholic Tipperary Scholar Read and write English Single - - - -
ODonnell

Thanks for the info Eringobragh 1916 and Ginny. I spotted that possible connection in the Irish census re the girl named Ellen O'Donnell staying with her grandparents Patrick and Johanna Cotter. The names would make sense but I don't know if Johanna (1893) had a sister. Unfortunately i don't have a marriage cert for John and Mary or the date when they married as of yet but i'm trying to find this marriage.

I don't know of any relative named Maria Daly but I'll ask my Mam later about this - anythings possible!

Spoke with a family member this morning and there is some story of Mary O'Donnell nee Cotter remarrying someone named Lahey/ Lahy from a place called Fethard in Tipperary and apparently there were children from this second mariage. The plot thickens!

Have a play on here there are two strong possibles for John and Marys marriage

Its 5 Euros to view


http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=0&prevStartQuery=0

Hi Ginny,

are these extracts from the Irish 1901 census? Johanna should have been 7/8 years old by then, i know that ages go up an down from census to census! The address given on the birth cert in 1893 was River Street, Clonmel so i don't think John would have been a farmer but i'm only guessing.

Patrick.

Patrick...Have you checked out 1901/1911Census for River St....?

Residents of a house 3.1 in River Street (Clonmel East Urban, Tipperary)
1911.....

Cotter Patrick 70 Male Head of Family Catholic Fethard Labourer Read and write Irish Widower - - - -
ODonnell Ellie 20 Female Grand Daughter Catholic Co Tipperary,Clonmel - Read and write - Single - - - -
**ODonnell Hannie 78 Female Grand Daughter Catholic (This should read 18 years...see original)***
James Cotter and family living house 31.1

Hi Eringobragh 1916,

i checked out the 1911 census re your tip above. I reckon you've found Johanna/ Annie, thanks a mil. I know nothing about Ellie, the sibling but i'll search for her birth cert to see if her parents match my Johanna's.

All the best,
Patrick.

Eringobragh 1916, your other find in 1901 now seems more likely but where is Johanna/ Annie!!!

Residents of a house 2.1 in Cross Street (Clonmel East Urban, Tipperary)

Cotter Patrick 55 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Waterford

Cotter Johanna 51 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Waterford

ODonnell Ellen 11 Female Grand Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary

Patrick....Your guess is as good as mine...Have tried every variation of surname/Christian name..have covered Lahy /Lahey and others ....in fact I think I may have looked at every name on the Census..!!
Will have another trawl through tomorrow..

Very much appreciated. I'm google eyed myself. Would probably have taken a break from this family line only that Johanna was my Mother's gran and my Mother is very keen to find out more about her. I'll probably have to take a trip sometime to Tipperary, i believe they have a visitor centre that holds thousands of records that are not readily available online. If i find out anything relevant i will let you know. Thanks again.

P.s. i know you help a lot with Irish records but i'm not sure if you know that Glasnevin cemetary has recently opened a fabulous information centre containing extensive lists of death records. They have also digitalised many of these records.

Patrick.

Patrick....If you ever get the opportunty visit Glasnevin ....I have had the trans.for some years now although it wasn't common knowledge they were there...people just werent interested at the time..Didnt know about the info.centre though...
Michael Collins grave..although nothing spectacular..is covered 12 months of the year with flowers...

Believe it or not I worked there for one summer, landscaping etc. in the old part next to the Botanic gardens. Daniel O'Connell's crypt had just been revamped. A fascinating place. My sister has been to the visitor's centre and said it is brilliant, not just for the personal records but for the historical info also.

http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/homepage/ :-)

Going west, re Michael Collins - "the big fella" - http://www.michaelcollinscentre.com/ is well worth a visit.

Thanks for that Joy, must check out that Michael Collin's website. Was only down that way, in his part of the world in West Cork last Sunday on my way to Dunmanway, beautiful part of the world.

I've finally gotten my hands on a birth cert for Ellen O'Donnell born 1890 and she was indeed my GGranmother Annie's sister. The parents are listed as John O'Donnell (labourer) and Mary nee Cotter living in River Street, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary. Can't quite make out the exact birth date on the cert but it looks like the 21st December 1890. I am now looking for help please as to what happened to Ellen (Ellie). Nobody in my family even knew she existed up until recently.
Thank you,
Patrick.