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Could one kind soul help please. I'm trying to find the birth of Henry Taylor around 1851 in Bethnal Green also his marriage approx 1880 possibly to Eliza ? Thanks.

1881 For Ref?

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Henry TAYLOR Head M Male 30 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England Genl Dealer
Eliza TAYLOR Wife M Female 20 Llanelly, Brecknock, Wales Genl Dealer Wife

Source Information:
Dwelling 43 Brady St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341092
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0424 / 99
Page Number 41

There is this marraige but the names are not unusual and it could well not be them.

Did they have any children?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
Mitchell Ann Bethnal Green 1c 719
Tarrant Edwin Bethnal Green 1c 719
Taylor Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 719
Taylor Henry John Bethnal Green 1c 719

I believe some of the children were William, Henry (born 1885) and Eliza.

Wrong birthplace I suppose?

1901 England Census

Name: Henry Taylor
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, London, England

Civil parish: Bromley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: London
County/Island: London

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bromley

Henry Taylor 32
Eliza Taylor 31
Henry Taylor 10
Willie Taylor 9
Ette Taylor 6
Eliza Taylor 5 months

Wrong place unfortunately.

Karrie, may I ask how you have come across henry and what else you know about him?
jan

Yes of course, any help would be appreciated. Henry (b.1885) was my grandfather and on his marriage certificate (in 1911) the fathers name is also Henry, but deceased. From family records I've gathered that Henry snr married Eliza with a surname of either Cooke, Ince or Bird (no one was sure). The 1881 census address of 43 Brady Street matches with other family records. Does this help?

Do you have occupations for Henry and his father, plus names of witnesses?
Jan

Have you found Henry Jnr in the 1911 census and is his birthplace listed?

A guess - listed as married under a year

1911

TAYLOR, Henry Head Married M 25 1886 And Glass Dealer Bethnal Green VIEW
TAYLOR, Rose Wife Married F 22 1889 Snarebrook Essex VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1431 Reference:
RG14PN1431 RG78PN50 RD17 SD2 ED14 SN31

Registration District:
Bethnal Green Sub District:
Bethnal Green South West Enumeration District:
14 Parish:
Bethnal Green

Address:
277 Cambridge Road Bethnal Green County:
London

Henry jnr was born in Middlesex, Bethnal Green, and was a carman. Henry snr was a hackney carriage driver. Witnesses on Henry jnr's marriage certificate were William Lucioni and Eliza Fitzgerald

So - just for ref - this could be Henry/Harry and although William appears to be too old


1911 census - household transcription
Person: TAYLOR, Harry
Address: 83 St Marys Road Plaistow

COOPER, Richard Husband Married M 35 1876 Street Scavenger Bethnal Green London VIEW
COOPER, Ellen Wife Married
13 years F 34 1877 Highbury N London VIEW
COOPER, Ellen Daughter F 12 1899 School Bethnal Green London VIEW
COOPER, Ethel Daughter F 10 1901 School Bush Hill Enfield VIEW
COOPER, Richard Son M 2 1909 Bethnal Green London VIEW
TAYLOR, William Brother In Law Single M 44 1867 Carman Poplar London VIEW
TAYLOR, Harry Brother In Law Single M 25 1886 Carman Bethnal Green London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9435 Reference:
RG14PN9435 RG78PN507A RD188 SD3 ED25 SN79

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
Plaistow Enumeration District:
25 Parish:
West Ham

Address:
83 St Marys Road Plaistow County:
Essex

So do you think this Harry was brother in law to Richard Cooper? Also did people say Harry instead of Henry on official documents, ie census?

This is only an educated guess based on the age, birth place and occupation. It is easier to work backwards. Henry's birth cert would give his mother's name also. Harry and Henry were frequently interchangable and the census was filled in by the householder.

To try to confirm if this is him who did he marry and was it pre the 1911 census in the April of that year

I can't find the family at all other than the 1881 census and wonder whether the father died pre 1891 and the mother remarried.

Having said the above the only birth I can see for a Henry Taylor senior in Bethnal Green is below, but without a marriage cert which is eluding you there is no way to ensure that it is the right Henry

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Dec 1852 (>99%)
Taylor Henry James Bethnal Green 1c 276

Henry jnr married Sarah Fitzgerald in December 1912. Thanks for your help on this, really appreciate it.

Sorry the last 1911 I found is not the right family. This is the marriage of Richard Cooper and Ellen Taylor and the census below looks like the family in 1891

Oh dear back to the drawing board

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
Beevor Maria Alice Bethnal G. 1c 498
Cooper Richard Bethnal G. 1c 498
Lay Walter Horace Bethnal G. 1c 498
Taylor Ellen Bethnal G. 1c 498

1891

Name: Ellen Taylor
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: Highbury

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green South
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Taylor 49
Ellen Taylor 47
William Taylor 25
Ellen Taylor 15
Mary Taylor 12
Thomas Taylor 8
Henry Taylor 6
Eliza Taylor 3

I think your family could be right about the Ince surname, but there is also a Bird option, I checked the familoes living beside Henry Snr and Eliza in 1881 and there was an Ince family as below who are all listed as born Llanelly. I

However despite the birthplace as Llanelly all the chidren are on FreeBMD with births in Bethnal Green

And next door but one were the Bird family as below again born Llannelly

I wonder if the enumerator listed most of the people at that address as born in Llannelly by mistake

1881 Her husband Edward was listed as a pauper and in the Bethnal Green workhouse in 1881 He was born Whitechapel and can see no siblings called Eliza in earlier censuses
Name: Ann Ince
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanelly, Middlesex, England
[Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England]

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 43 Brady St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Charwoman

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Ince 34
Sarah A. Ince 14
Eliza E. Ince 12
James E. Ince 10
Hannah Ince 5


1881

James BIRD Head W Male 62 Llanelly, Middlesex, England Hatter
Frank BIRD Son U Male 24 Llanelly, Middlesex, England Porter

Source Information:
Dwelling 43 Brady St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341092
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0424 / 99
Page Number 41

Bloomin' heck you've done so well on my behalf, thank you. What do you suggest I do to get this sorted?

I really don't know at the moment. I can't see the Bird family at all in other years and the Ince family were definately from the Middlesex area and Edward didn't have a sister Eliza that I could see, However it is fascinating that your relatives remembered both names.

I think I have found Sarah Fitzgerald in 1911 if you haven't already got her (do say if you haven't got it and I will post details) and with her family in 1901 with sister Eliza who was a witness at the wedding and am convinced that Henry Taylor was not on the census in 1911.

I love a mystery but have rarely met families that hide so well.

Thank you K, would you post details of Sarah in the census please?