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Hi

Can anyone please help - trying to go back further on my dad's side.

Frank Butlre is my Gr GD - I believe he was born about 1880/81 - ordered his marriage certificate to Hannah Bowen - married in 1900 in Pontypridd, Wales. They were 20 & 19 respectively when married. I have info on Hannah Bowen and managed to find her ancestors but struggling on Franks side. On previous census searches it shows Frank as being born in Cheltenham.

I looked on Ancestry and found a potential match with a Frank born in Cheltenham in 1881 - Franks father's name is shown as James Butler on teh marriage certificate - he was a coachman and Frank shows as a coal labourer - same as John Bowen his Father in Law??

Can anyone help me go back a bit further please?

Thanks
Carly

Here he is in 1911

census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
BUTLER, Frank Head Married M 30 1881 Colliery Surface Labourer Cheltenham Gloster VIEW
BUTLER, Hannah Wife Married
10 years F 29 1882 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BOWEN, Mary Mother In Law Widow F 66 1845 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Rachel Ann Daughter F 9 1902 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Virtue Daughter F 7 1904 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, David James Son M 5 1906 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Florence Ethel Daughter F 3 1908 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Frank Son M 1 (17 MONTHS) 1910 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
LORENZ, Frederickk Boarder Single M 40 1871 Bread-Baker London Fulham VIEW
BUTLER, James Boarder Single M 18 1893 Colliery Miner Cutter Cheltenham Glos VIEW
TWINNING, Charles Boarder Single M 18 1893 Colliery Miner Cutter Cheltenham Glos VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32392 Reference:
RG14PN32392 RG78PN1853B RD589 SD4 ED64 SN318
 
Registration District:
Pontypridd Sub District:
Rhondda Enumeration District:
64 Parish:
Rhondda
 
Address:
39 Edmund Street Tylorstown Glam Wales

Carly, can I just check - what is Franl's father 's occupation on marriage cert?
Just for info:

1911

BUTLER, Frank Head Married M 30 1881 Colliery Surface Labourer Cheltenham Gloster VIEW
BUTLER, Hannah Wife Married
10 years F 29 1882 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BOWEN, Mary Mother In Law Widow F 66 1845 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Rachel Ann Daughter F 9 1902 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Virtue Daughter F 7 1904 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, David James Son M 5 1906 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Florence Ethel Daughter F 3 1908 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
BUTLER, Frank Son M 1 (17 MONTHS) 1910 Cheltenham Tylorstown VIEW
LORENZ, Frederickk Boarder Single M 40 1871 Bread-Baker London Fulham VIEW
BUTLER, James Boarder Single M 18 1893 Colliery Miner Cutter Cheltenham Glos VIEW
TWINNING, Charles Boarder Single M 18 1893 Colliery Miner Cutter Cheltenham Glos VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32392 Reference:
RG14PN32392 RG78PN1853B RD589 SD4 ED64 SN318

Registration District:
Pontypridd Sub District:
Rhondda Enumeration District:
64 Parish:
Rhondda

Address:
39 Edmund Street Tylorstown Glam Wales County:
Glamorganshire

Jan

I woul;d say you have found the correct Frank as there is only one birth:

Births Jun 1882 (>99%)
Butler Frank Cheltenham 6a 444

And 1901 census

Name: Frank F Butler
Age in 1901: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Ferndale and Tylorstown
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 62
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank F Butler 20
Hannah Butler 19

View original image
View blank form

James (father) shows as a Coachman on marriage certfificate

I thought it may be that birth in 1882 - but now think it may be one in 1881 - although that still doesn't match up with marriage certificate - which shows he was 20 when married in September 1900 - unless he was born late 1879?

In 1911 James Bulter was living with the couple also born Cheltenham and a possible brother and this looks like him in 1901 with father James a Coachman

1901

Name: James Butler
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Cheltenham

Civil parish: Cheltenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Gloucester
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Cheltenham
Sub-registration district: Cheltenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
James Butler 52 b Cheltenham
Jane Butler 52 b Cheltenham
James Butler 8

Yes that sounds right - i thought James Jnr would be his brother - wonder why I can't find Frank on 1881 or 91 census reports then?

Possible for James and earlier wife in 1881

Name: James Butler
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Harriett
Gender: Male
Where born: Leckhampton, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Cheltenham
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Montpellier Retreat
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Coachman (D)

Registration district: Cheltenham
Sub-registration district: Cheltenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Butler 32
Harriett Butler 34
Ellen E. Butler 11
William Butler 5
Edward J. Butler 3
Florence Butler 1

Was this the first wife's Harriet's death and the family had spilt up by 1891?

Deaths Sep 1885 (>99%)

Butler Harriet 37 Cheltenham 6a 248

Looks possible - but doesn't explain why Frank isn't showing on 1881 or 1891?? Either that or he lied on his marriage cert?

Possible marriage for Harriet and James

Marriages Dec 1871   (>99%)
--------Butler  James    Cheltenham  6a 935   
Hollister  Susan    Cheltenham  6a 935   
Pritchard  Henry    Cheltenham  6a 935   
-------Scrivens  Harriett    Cheltenham  6a 935   

Based on the birth in 1881 Frank wasn't born in time for the 1881 census and none of the 1881 family show in 1891 that I can see. It is possibe the family were missed or the children were staying with relatives

In 1901 it looks as though the youngest daughter Florence in 1881 is living with her mothers family

Name: Florence Harriet Butler
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Twyning
Ecclesiastical parish: Twyning St Mary Magdalene
Town: Twyning
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Tewkesbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Jesse Wm Serivens 39 Farmer
Verina Serivens 40
Joseph Cecil Serivens 8
George Wm Serivens 6
Walter Vincent Serivens 2
Verina Dorothy Serivens 1
Emma Chamberlain 57
Florence Harriet Butler 21 Palourmaid