Find Ancestors

I really need some help please. I have managed to find an old family history that my great grandfather has written. It is pretty jumbled and frustratingly contains no dates or locations other than names of farms in Wales where the family appear to have lived for over 200 years. I have been into the census records but I am failing to find any information on this family despite the fact I have a written document telling me these people existed, please can someone help me, and advise me on how to trace them. I will put a very potted history down below of what I know now from this document, this relates to both the maternal side and the paternal side of my great grandfather’s parents.

Please be aware it is a real riddle and I hope not too confusing! It’s a challenge to say the least.

Maternal side

Margaret Rogers was born 1839 in Cvonshire, Carnarvon, the family history says she had siblings:
Mary (known as Polly) who married a captain William Thomas – no children
Laura
Elizabeth – died young
Annie who married a Captain William Williams (a first cousin) and had 3 children George, Lillie and Mary. They may have lived in Shanghai
Tom who married a Lizzie Pugh (a 2nd cousin) and had 4 sons, 2 daughters, then remarried and had 5 children and moved to New York at some point. First wife Lizzie died leaving the kids at BrynRhedyb, the girl Gracie died of diphtheria there and one of the boys in an asylum. Another son was called Elliot.
Hugh who drowned at sea (Valpararsu Bay)
Sam Lloyd died in his 20’s of the ‘consumption’

I am lacking birth dates here.

Their parents were Hugh Rogers, a captain in the Merchant Navy and he died either 1880 or 1882 in Bodhyfryn and Grace Samuels (daughter of a Thomas Samuels).

I can find no trace of this family on the 1941 census even though I know my Great great grandmother Margaret Rogers was born in 1939 in Carnavon.

Hugh Rogers was the son of Mary Lloyd (Llwyd) and Lieutenant Rogers, a naval officer (he and all hands were lost at sea in a winter gale sailing between Holyhead and Dublin delivering mail packets).

Mary and Lieutenant Rogers had 5 or 6 children including:
Tom Rogers became a captain in the Merchant Navy, married, no kids
John Rogers also a Captain in the Merchant Navy bachelor who died at Tynrohos (a farm)
Hugh Rogers – as above
Lowri Rogers
Elizabeth Rogers
Possibly another child.

Mary Lloyd was the daughter of Thomas Lloyd of Treaddur bay (birth must have been early 1700’s)
Mary Lloyd was one of a number of children, the ones I know about were
Thomas Lloyd,
John Lloyd
Betson Lloyd (I know she died age 96 or 97 in Holyhead)
Lowri
Possibly others.

Paternal side

Richard Evans b1831 married Margaret Rogers b1839 in Carnavon and they had 9 children, of which I have found 7 (Hugh, Thomas (my great grandfather), John, Llewlyn, Gwylin, Hywel, Sam Lloyd, then apparently a Samuel and a Cornelius both who died in infancy)

Richard Evans b 1831 Anglesey Wales (my great great grandfather) was the son of Richard Evans and Hannah Pritchard both from Twrllechiad, their other children were:
Samson who married and moved to Wisconsin and had a daughter called June
Ellen married an Edward Jones – no children
Cornelius a sailor and died in Calcutta
Other children mentioned in the history but not named

Hannah Prichard was the youngest daughter of Cornelius Ap. Richard (who became known as Cornelius Prichard, in the new naming fashion where the A from Ap was dropped and the P added to the Richard). Cornelius was a steward and a farmer on a farm named Twrllechiad, near Llysdulas for the owner a Mr Hughes and his 2 sisters.

Cornelius married twice, had a daughter by each wife. The first daughter married a man named Roberts who was one of 3 brothers who all became v rich, 2 receiving the title of Sir possibly from the Bangor area or Llanfeui.

Cornelius Ap Richard (Prichard) was the son of Cornelius Ap ? both from the neighbourhood of Bardsey Island

Any help in unraveling this would be very much appreciated,

Many thanks if you even managed to read this far!

Vicki

Picking a name almost at random!

1841 Wales Census
about Sampson Evans
Name: Sampson Evans
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Male
Where born: Anglesey, Wales

Civil Parish: Llanwenllwyfo
Hundred: Twrcelyn
County/Island: Anglesey
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Anglesey
Sub registration district: Llandyfrydog
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Name
Richard Evans 50
Hannah Evans 45
Richard Evans 10
Sampson Evans 5
Ellen Evans 4


and 1851


1851 Wales Census
about Samson Evans
Name: Samson Evans
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwenllwyfo, Anglesey, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanwenllwyfo
County/Island: Anglesey
Country: Wales
Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Occupation: View Image
Disability: View Image
Registration district: Anglesey
Sub registration district: Llandyfrydog
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Evans 59 Farmer of 71 acres employing 1 man
Hannah Evans 56
Richard Evans 20
Samson Evans 17
Ellen Evans 13
William Griffith 21 Servants
Ellen Roberts 18


leaving for the USA with wife Ann?

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Samson Evans
Name: Samson Evans
Arrival Date: 25 May 1863
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: England
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Ship Name: Southampton
Search Ship Database: Search the Southampton in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 21
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: M237_228
List Number: 471
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States





Andy

Many thanks Andy, I have had some success with this part of the family, but the emigration details are something I dont have access to so really appreciate them. Its the older generation and the Rogers I am really struggling with though, the Rogers just dont seem to exists!

Hi Victoria
Ref for Margaret Rogers - 27 309 Mar qtr 1839 - various births for other Rogers on freebmd-might be worth a look-JLe

Hi Victoria

I've been looking at your Rogers family and turned this entry up from 1861 which seems to have most of the children you list. I see that a Grace Rogers died in Bangor in 1854, so could be their mother?

1861 Wales Census
about Laura Jones Rogers
Name: Laura Jones Rogers
[Laura Jones Roberts]
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Jonathan
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Female
Where born: Caernarvon, Caernarvonshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Bangor
Ecclesiastical parish: Bangor
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Bangor
Sub registration district: Bangor
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
Jonathan Roberts 50
Anne Roberts 55
John Roberts 15 son
Owen Hughes Williams 54 Visitor
Margarett Martin 16 Niece
Jane Evans 17 servant
Margaret Rogers 22 daughters and sons
Laura Jones Rogers 18
Anne Rogers 10
Hugh Rogers 7
Samuel Floyd Rogers 5

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 4351; Folio: 31; Page: 8; GSU roll: 543272.


This looks to be the Roberts from 1851

1851 Wales Census
about John Roberts
Name: John Roberts
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Jonathan
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Lporl, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Bangor
Ecclesiastical parish: Bangor
Town: Bangor
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Occupation: View Image
Disability: View Image
Registration district: Bangor
Sub registration district: Bangor
ED, institution, or vessel: 1j
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 75
Household Members: Name Age
Jonathan Roberts 40
Ann Roberts 45
John Roberts 5




Andy

Just to aviod confusion I am a different Victoria!

birth
Name: Hugh Rogers
Year of Registration: 1853
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bangor
County: Anglesey, Caernarvonshire, Gwynedd
Volume: 11b
Page: 454

Rogers births
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1837 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers William Carnarvon 27 244

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1839 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Margaret Carnarvon 27 309

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1842 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Laura Carnarvon 27 314
Rogers Mary Jane Ellen Carnarvon 27 317

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Griffith Evans Carnarvon 27 336

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Ellen Emmi_y Carnarvon 27 317
Rogers Ellin Emmily Carnarvon 27 317

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Mary [C_]arnarvon 27 _1[7_]
ROGERS Mary Carnarvon 27 317

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Robert Carnarvon 27 307

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Elizabeth Carnarvon 27 303

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1845 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Jane Caernarvon 27 321

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1846 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Mary Jane Carnarvon 27 328

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1846 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Thomas Lloyd Carnarvon 27 317

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1847 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Catherine Carnarvon 27 292

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1848 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS John Carnarvon 27 301
ROGERS William Carnarvon 27 306

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Elizabeth Carnarvon 27 277

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1851 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Robert Carnarvon 27 340

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1851 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Anne Carnarvon 27 299

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1852 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS George Henry Carnarvon 11b 448

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1853 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Margaret Carnarvon 11b 407

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1854 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Ellin Emily Carnarvon 11b 450

Births Sep 1855 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Samuel Bangor 11b 469

death age 72

Deaths Jun 1886 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROGERS Hugh 72 Carnarvon 11b 314


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Jun 1854 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Grace Bangor 11b 344

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1893 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Grace Howard 13 Carnarvon 11b 329

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rogers Grace 84 Carnarvon 11b 287


if Samuel Rogers was bron in 1855 then the death of Grace can't be the 1854 one.

Thank you so much to Andy and Victoria, I really appreciate your help, and you've certinaly helped put a few pieces of the puzzle together.

Andy - I too found that 1861 census, but I am very confused about that fact that the parents seem to be Jonathan and Ann Roberts, and suddenly the childrens names change to Rogers (I agree they seem to be the children I am looking for) but why are the parents and older siblings by the name Roberts and this history my great grandfather has written he refers to his grandparents a number of times throughout it, each time saying they were called Hugh and Grace (not Jonathan and Ann??). I have tried searching for Hugh and Grace on the 1941 census onwards with no luck so all very odd. Thing is though the census you have listed also lists a visitor by the name of Williams and I know one of the sisters ot Hugh (or Jonathan if thats his real name) married a Captain Williams which makes it even more likely it is the same family.

This is why I am so confused, yes the 1861 census does seem to have the right children but the parents are wrong! I am sure this history is pretty accurate as my great grandfather goes into quite alot of detail, lots of family stories and ancedotes etc so I dont think he would of got his grandparents names wrong............very frustrating!

Vicki

Looking at the original image of the 1861 census, the Rogers are at 49 Glandwis? Terrace and the Roberts are at 46.

The relationships are transcribed as written on the census so it is confusing.

However Ann Roberts was 55 , so unlikely to be the mother of Samuel Llod Rogers as she would have been 50 when gave birth.

Suggest that you get some of the birth certs to confirm parents being Hugh and Grace

found them in England in 1851 -TERRIBLE transcription!!

Name: Laura Rogers
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: North Wales, Bangor

Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 1uu
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Williams 38 (Master porter)
Ellen Williams 37
Ellen Williams 9
Chatlone Williams 7
Mariam Williams 3
Catherine Cundy 22
Hugh Royer 37 (Hugh Rogers - master mariner) Visitor
Gedel Royer 37 (Grace Rogers)
Margaret Royer 12
Laura Rogers 9
Anne Rogers 3 Mo

1861 Hugh and Grace in England without children

Name: Hugh Rogers
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Grace
Gender: Male
Where born: Holyhead, Wales

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub registration district: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 13h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 57
Household Members: Name Age
Hugh Rogers 47
Grace Rogers 45


I suggest that the Roberts (possibly related) acted as guardian's of the children whilst Hugh and Grace were in Liverpool

Victoria, you are fantastic!

It falls even more into place now, Hugh was a captain in the merchant navy as well, and in this history he seems to spend most of his time at sea, explaining why he isnt on all the census', I am not sure why I didnt think if this at first. The house you found them in, with the Williams makes sense, that must be one of Hugh's sisters, as I know one of the children married a William Williams who was a cousin.

Once again thank you so much for your help

Vicki

What a lovely thing to have found from your great grandfather! I'm not brilliant with family history so am reading through the posts that other people have contributed to see if i can learn something and im learning a lot! Just a wonder though, is it possible that Hughe and Grace went by different names for some reason?

Thank you so much for posting such as puzzle as it is most interesting and the people who are contributing are wonderful! I hope you find out some more to your puzzle x

Kirsty

There is a brilliant site for Welsh Mariners:

http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/search.php

Your Hugh Rogers born 1814 Holyhead is mentioned there. It gives certificate numbers / names of ships / Kew ref number - the sorts of things you might need if you wanted to see his records at Kew

Tina x

It looks as though Lieutenant Rogers was named Thomas Rogers. The following is taken from the Welsh Mariners Index (web address above) for Thomas:

[Trinity House Petition of Mary Rogers, aged 40, widow of Thomas Rogers of Water St., Holyhead, AGY, 1819]. Precis: Thomas Rogers was apprenticed of 3 years, then seaman and mate in the Irish and coastal trade. Mate on the Princes Amelia, Griffith Roberts, master. Master of the sloop Lovely Jeny for 2 years of which he was part owner with Thomas Lloyd. He perished on his voyage from Liverpool to Dublin in 1818. Mary daur of Thomas Lloyd, Vaenol by Lowry his wife was christened on 20 March 1779 at Cathedral Church of Bangor. Thomas Rogers married Mary Lloyd on 20 April 1802 at Llanbeblig parish. Their children were baptised as follows: Catherine on 18 April 1804; Lowry on 6 June 1806 Elizabeth on 27 Oct 1809 all at Llanbeblig parish. Their following children were baptised at Holyhead: Thomas on 16 Aug 1812; Hugh on 3 March 1814 and John on 23 May 1816. Mary Rogers lives in the house of Lord Boston and is a washer woman. Petition dated 28 Oct 1819.

It is well worth a look for the other seafaring members of the family

Tina x

Tina, thank you so much, everyone on here has been fantastic, these boards are a fantastic resource, I just hope in the future I will be able to help others as much.

I am definately going to go on this Mariner site for Wales, the info about Mary and Leutenant Rogers is so exciting! bang goes my early night, just have to hope my 2 boys sleep through tonight so I can get some sleep!

vicki

All your replies have been so helpful, thank you, I am really beginning to unravel this now although I will no doubt be back on at some point asking for more advice!