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I'm trying to find information on my grandmother's family. Her name was Ivy Kathleen Smith, born 1901/02 I think, possibly in Peterborough as that's where all her sisters lived in later life. Ivy married Robert Edward Green and had one son - Raymond.

Ivy had sisters Reenie (sp) probably really named Irene but not sure; Viv and Queenie.

I know that Viv married someone with the surname Perkins and had a son Clifford.

If anyone can help please let me know. Thank you.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

search for

births
surname smith
given neames ivy kathleen
1900 to 1903

As one might fear, there are about nine. None in Peterborough. Possibly Bedford? June quarter 1902.

Do you have her parents' names? If not, you will need to find her marriage to get her father's name and her age.

Were her siblings older or younger?

Also -- information on your grandmother's family -- I was assuming ancestors. Are you looking for living people?

Viv and Reenie are likely nicknames, of course. Queenie may also be -- either just a family nickname, or a common nickname for Victoria, e.g.

Searching for her marriage at FreeBMD, it was:

Marriages Jun 1922
GREEN Robert E Smith Peterbro' 3b 689
SMITH Ivy K Green Peterbro' 3b 689

If you order the certificate it will give you her father's name and occupation and her age at marriage.

Thank you so much Evie. I'll order that certificate today.

Looking mainly for ancestors for the tree. I've traced grandad's (Robert Edward, above) family back to two sets of great-great-great-great grandparents and one set of great-great-great-great-great-grandparents. But nan and grandad lived about 30 miles from her sisters and didn't see them that often, so I only have vague memories of them from my childhood.

I thought I was fairly intelligent but I can't get any results with the searches I've tried on that site. Off to try once more with her sisters.

Thanks again - your help is very much appreciated.

Your'e welcome! If any of the siblings was older, i.e. born by 1901, a census search might turn up something. Smith, though ... Trying to remember whether I have Smiths in that area! Just Nottinghamshire and Cornwall I think, lol.


Clifford Perkins' birth doesn't seem to be transcribed yet, i.e.

surname perkins
given name clifford
mother smith

doesn't find anything. Eventually it should turn up, and his birth cert would give you Viv's full name, hopefully.

marriages
smith
perkins
peterborough
1915-1930

doesn't give anything at present either.


In the list of Smith marriages in Peterborough 1915 to 1940, I just did a "find" down the page for "ren".

Here's a possible:

Marriages Dec 1925
Smith Irene K Watts
Watts James W Smith Peterbro'. 3b 564

No identifiable match in births anywhere 1890 to 1910 though.

And no Que* in that list of Peterborough marriages.

Oh well! Post back in the thread here when you get that marriage certificate and we'll have another look!

The geographically closest Viv* Smith so far transcribed is:

Marriages Jun 1926
King George E Smith Basford 7b 499
Smith Vivien M King Basford 7b 499

Now Basford, that's where my Smiths are from!


She would be this one:

Births Mar 1897
Smith Vivien Maynard Basford 7b 184

Who knows, we might be related yet, lol. But no, if she was born and married in Basford, she isn't likely yours.

Hi again.

I've been doing a bit of research, and it seems from a distant relative that the Smith girls may in fact have been born in Wisbech. She's not sure though. I can definitely trace an Ivy Kathleen born June 1902 Wisbech, and also an Irene (which would cover Reenie), and a Queenie. No Viv, but there is a Violet, and dad thinks that Viv (or Vivien/Vivienne) may not have been her real name.

So all I have to do now is wait on delivery of the birth certificates to see if the mother's maiden name matches.

Here's hoping!

Thank you for your help, and if anyone knows or finds out any further information I'd be really grateful.

Is this the Violet you're looking at?


Births Jun 1912
Smith Violet R I Winterton Wisbech 3b 975

If so, then unfortunately:

Marriages Dec 1911
Smith Walter J Wisbech 3b 1427
Winterton Margaret E Wisbech 3b 1427

-- her parents married only just before that (and likely also had children John 1914, Cecil 1916 and Eric 1921), which could rule out the others being children of the same marriage.

Aha. Viv's son Clifford:

Births Mar 1931
Perkins Clifford J Smith Peterbro' 3b 264

But there's no marriage to match.

There is this:

Marriages Dec 1927
Carter Harry Smith Peterbro' 3b 621
Smith Violet E Carter Peterbro' 3b 621

Could she have remarried quickly enough to have a new husband and child by 1931? No Carter-Perkins marriage to match.

I'm also a Carter from the Wellingborough area. Just desperately looking for cousins. ;)

Could Viv have been Olive?


Marriages Dec 1929
Perkins Thomas L Smith Mt.Harbro' 7a 41
Smith Olive M Perkins Mt. Harbro' 7a 41

Probably that Olive:

Births Mar 1909
Smith Olive Muriel Mt Harbro 7a 13

In case those are them, these are their deaths:


Name: Olive Muriel Perkins
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1908
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1984
Age at death (estimated): 75
Registration district: Leicestershire Central
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 6
Page: 1587


Births Mar 1903
Perkins Thomas Leonard Mt. Harbro' 7a 12

Name: Thomas Leonard Perkins
Birth Date: 22 Jan 1903
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 1989
Age at death (estimated): 86
Registration district: Leicestershire Central
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 6
Page: 1590

Death of Clifford, still in Peterborough:


Name: Clifford John Perkins
Birth Date: 28 Feb 1931
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 2005
Age at death (estimated): 74
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire, Huntingdonshire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire
Register number: E1G
District and Subdistrict: 335/1E
Entry Number: 251

But did you get the Smith-Green marriage certificate yet??

Hi Evie

Thanks for all of your input.

I haven't received the certificate yet - I don't know if it got lost in the Christmas post, but the lady at the records office has agreed to send me another copy.

I've also confirmed with Dad that Clifford's birth date is correct, and I've ordered a copy of his birth certificate so I can check what Viv's real name was!

Both mum and dad only remember her as Viv, but I'm blowed if I can find anything under any name remotely resembling that! At least Clifford's birth certificate should clear that up once and for all, with the added benefit of giving me his dad's first name.

Everyone's surprised I haven't given up yet, but I'm like a dog with a bone on this one. I have so much info on grandad's side of the family (well, grandad's mother's side mostly) and so little on nan's - I can't leave everything one-sided, lol!

Blimey Evie

I've just properly read one of your earlier posts, about being from Wellingborough!

Guess where I am?

Small world.

Heh, I should have said *my great-grandmother* was a Carter from Wellingborough, lol.

I do still have a cousin there though!

Looking forward to finding out who that Viv was. I had a certificate get lost in the mail last summer, and I patiently waited 3 months before inquiring after it ...

hi dont know if any help however remote but i am in peterborough & my sister married a smith ( derek) who's familly were from this area.
remember him mentioning an aunt viv.
from what i understand they conect with setchfields of peterborough.
as he is in his 50's could well be about right era.
also you mention a name queenie we that name is unusual & i have only ever herd of 1 wich is someone i met here years ago prob born around 1900 area married ernie mathews.
lots of long shots there but you never know

Where did my last reply go?

Sorry Peter, I did reply but it didn't register.

Nan only had sisters, so unless any of them had a child outside of marriage (don't think they did) then your Derek Smith will not be directly related to them. But at the moment I'm waiting on nan's birth certificate to find out her dad's first name. From there I can hopefully discover whether or not he had brothers/cousins etc, and I will come back to you if I may when I have that information to see if there is any connection.

Might just kill my 19 year-old son!! Nan's birth certificate arrived yesterday morning (the replacement one). He has the same initial as I do and thought it was for him but couldn't work out why! The fact it said 'Mrs' on the envelope didn't seem to register with him!!!!

Anyway...

I've found out that her father was Charles Henry Smith, DOB as yet uncertain but probably around 1870 onwards. Her mother was Edith Ward, DOB probably about the same.

Charles died in about 1903 and Edith married again in 1904 - this time to George Standingford. This I found out by rifling through some old documents my mother gave me this morning - Edith Standingford was showing as my Nan's mother on a life insurance policy taken out in 1916, whereas Nan's surname is definitely Smith on the same document.

Well, at least I'm getting somewhere. Although it does look as though Nan's younger two sisters were in fact half-sisters. No wonder I couldn't find any trace of them under the name Smith.

Now I just have to wait for Clifford's birth certificate to establish Viv's real name...

Thank you so much to everyone for all of your help.

Off to research more on Charles Henry Smith, Edith Ward and the Standingfords.