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After a fantastic response to my query on my Timperley side. while I am on a roll I will ask about my mothers side which is Smith(groan) My grandfather was Noah Smith, His Father was James Smith a boatman on the Birmingham Canal in the mid/late 1800's His mother was Salome, My Maternal g,g grandmother but I do not know her maiden surname. She possibly comes from Oakengates/ Ketley Bank in Shropshire..
God bless.Dave

Hi Dave,

Any ideas when and where Noah was born??


Dee x

Hi Denise, Noah was born in Hulme Mancheter. I have all his details but I am very skimpy on his wife, my maternal Grandmother Ellen Gardiner(spelling) and her mother, her father was John G. Thanks for your interest. God bless. Dave.

Hi Dave,

So this is your Grandparents marriage registration;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DILLON Agnes Chorlton 8c 1846
ETHELL William Chorlton 8c 1846
GARDNER Ellen Chorlton 8c 1846
SMITH Noah Chorlton 8c 1846


How old was Ellen when she married, what was her father Johns occupation and who were the witnesses??


Dee x

There's a tree on Ancestry with a small amount of info;

HOUSEHOLD SMITH ELLEN F 1889 22 Chorlton Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD SMITH NORAH M 1886 25 Chorlton Lancashire

Christina born 1909 gave me this possible for the 1911.

These people are also living with them at Owen Street;

HOUSEHOLD GARNER SARAH F 1892 19 Chorlton Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD TAYLOR ALFRED M 1900 11 Chorlton Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD TAYLOR SARAH F 1858 53 Chorlton Lancashire


I presume Sarah is Ellens sister??? Who are the Taylors??


Dee x

Hi Dee, Ellen was 23 when she wed Noah 07/09/1907
Her father John was listed as deceased and his job was an iron moulder.
first 2 of your marriages for 1907 are not mine.
on the 1911 census you show Sarah 1 could be Ellens sister but I did not know of her
Alfred would be her 1/2 brother and Sarah 2 would be her birth mother but remarried. I hope this makes some sense to you. Are you able to view my tree as all this is on it.?
God bless. Dave.

Hi Dee sorry I forgot to add that the witnesses for Noah and Ellen's wedding were Robert and Elizabeth Anne Maxwell, not sure on the surname as it is hard to read on the cert. Dave.

Hi Dave, the other people listed on 1907 marriage just have their names on the same page in the register as your relatives.

It may be worth taking a look at the 1911 census - free to look but pay to view. I've found lots of helpful info ton relationships that I had no idea about.

Your tree on here is personal to you unless you choose to share it with someone - but it's recommended that you only share with someone to whom you are pretty sure you are related. Privacy data and all that.

Hope this helps!!

I wonder if this is the Taylor family, according to the 1911 census Alfred and Sarah snr were both born Manchester;

1901 England Census
about Alfred Taylor
Name: Alfred Taylor
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Hulme St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 100
Household Members: Name Age
George Taylor 46
Jane Taylor 40
Charles Taylor 15
James Taylor 12
Sarah Taylor 8 <<<<<<<<<<<<< Sarah Gardiner????
Alfred Taylor 1


They are living at Owen Street which is a fab start!!!!

Now you can see that the mother is Jane................. did Sarah snr use her middle name???


Dee x

Maybe????

1891 England Census
about Charles Garner
Name: Charles Garner
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John H
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 28 Silk Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John H Garner 33 <<<<<<<<<<<<< Occupation, MOULDER!!!!!
Jane Garner 31
Elizabeth Garner 9
William Garner 6
Charles Garner 3
Ellen Garner 1
Francis Drake 38 <<<<<<< lodger.

Hi Dave,
I must admit the Garndiner/Gardner/Garner side is a real maze....... you may need to spend some money on birth certs etc...

I wonder is this could be little Sarahs birth;


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
................................................
Gardner Sarah Jane Chorlton 8c 954

It's quite interesting when you look at freebmd.

I put in Marriages.....Smith....James and then spouse name ......Salome and up pops three possibles. Halifax (1850) Wrexham(1885) and Wrexham isn't that far from Shropshire, and this one near Birmingham:

Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GRIFFITHS William Henry Dudley 6c 117
ROBERTS Fanny Dudley 6c 117
SMITH James Dudley 6c 117
SMITH Salome Selina L Dudley 6c 117


As Denise says though, the best way to be absolutely sure is to send for the certs.

Hi Dee, I do not believe in coincidence but when I got my mothers grave papers I found that the grave was bought by Noah and the first person to be interred was a JANE TAYLOR! We have been wondering who the heck she was! The grave also had Ellen interred and my eldest sister Audrey, Now of course my Mum and youngest brother Allan. But thank you so much for solving a mystery.
Also thanks for the other info, it all goes to put leaves on the branches. Like you and Cynthia say it is now time to clarify all this with some certs.
Thanks girls, you are both Stars. God bless Dave.

Hi Dave,

It's sounds very promising regarding Jane Taylor, I did wonder about this death but was going to wait and see what your thoughts were about what I had posted.


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Dec 1893 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gardiner John Henry 35 Chorlton 8c 600



I know that you said Ellens father was John G on her marriage cert, but he most likely died when she was very young so therefore she may not have remembered correctly.


I'll see if I can tie in a marriage to George Taylor........... just makes it more difficult not knowing if she married as Sarah or Jane.



Dee x

Struggling with a marriage to George Taylor, some possible births for the children though;


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1881
--------------------
GARNER Elizabeth Ann Chorlton 8c 820



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1884
------------------
Garner William Chorlton 8c 794


I think I would order this cert first and use a checking reference as John her father;


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1890
----------------------------
Gardner Ellen Chorlton 8c 924



Going to be keeping my fingers crossed Dave.......... so please come back and let me know as soon as possible (I find it hard to type when my fingers are crossed.)


Dee x

Hi Dee, I have moved on a pace since you sent me the info on John Gardner. His wife is Sarah JANE Stevens (aka Jane Taylor). There are also other children in the family that I didn't know of. George Taylor, Sarah Janes 2nd husband ended up in the workhouse hospital in Manchester. No reason or cure found as yet. I am tempted to follow on but it is leading me awayfrom my main family so I may leave it be for another time.
God bless Dave.
ps hope your crossed fingers are not aching!