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I am trying to find anything on Peter Smith 1853 born in Ireland but moved to Birkenhead in the early 1880's where he married Catherine, (surname unknown) as been unable to find marriage certificate. They had ten Children of which five survived (according to 1911 census), however I have only found four Mary Josephine 1887, Martha 1889, Sarah 1894 and William 1897.

1901 census transcription details for: 57, Bostock Street, Bootle Cum Linacre
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 3460 Folio: 91 Page: 20

Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Bootle
Parish: Bootle cum Linacre Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: Walton on the Hill St Marys City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 57, Bostock Street, Bootle Cum Linacre
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
SMITH, Peter Head Married M 48 1853 Dock Labourer
Ireland
SMITH, Catherine Wife Married F 41 1860
Birkenhead
Cheshire
SMITH, Mary Daughter Single F 14 1887
Bootle
Lancashire
SMITH, Martha Daughter Single F 12 1889
Bootle
Lancashire
SMITH, Sarah Daughter Single F 7 1894
Bootle
Lancashire
SMITH, William Son Single M 4 1897
Bootle
Lancashire

I do'nt think so Lisa, as in the 1911 sensus Catherine says the have been married 51 year so that makes the wedding about 1880

On 1911 they have been married 31 years, although Peter is not at home?

Anyway - this suggests a marriage around 1880.

If you look at the image, although she has called herself 'Catherine', she has actually signed as Mrs. 'K' Smith.

I therefore think this looks a good possibility for the marriage?


Marriages Mar 1880

Nolan Kate Birkenhead 8a 665
SMITH Peter Birkenhead 8a 665

What do you think?

Dea x


P.S. - her daughter Mary Josephine is also in the household with husband Alfred Eve + 1 child.

Dea x

could she actually have married as kate?

Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
Brown George Birkenhead 8a 665 Scan available - click to view
>>>>>Nolan Kate Birkenhead 8a 665 Scan available - click to view
SINNOTT Margaret Birkenhead 8a 665
>>>>SMITH Peter Birkenhead 8a 665 Scan available - click to view
Wilkinson Mary Ellen Birkenhead 8a 665 Scan available - click to view

one of the children's birth certificates would confirm her maiden name

the 1885 marriage is the wrong groom Catherine Stanton married George

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1885
STANTON Catherine
MCDONNELL George
Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended

Probably them on 1881:

1881 England Census
about Peter Smith
Name: Peter Smith
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Kate
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Kirkdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 54 Othello St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Dock Labourer

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Smith 25
Kate Smith 24
John Smith 3 months



Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3683; Folio: 121; Page: 39;GSU roll: 1341882.

Source Information:

Dea x

nudged for Doreen

Dea x

I am overwhelmed at all your help as I have been looking for ages. Sorry about the amount of years married I meant 31 but was looking at her age which in 1911 was 51. Peter was 7 years older than Catherine (or kate) so I don't think the 1881 census is them, plus Catherine states in both 1901 and 1911 that she's from Birkenhead. It's possible that Peter was working in London in 1911 as Mary Josephine's husband came from there and she was also married there.
I have been unable to ascertain an exact date of birth as there as so many Smiths out there. I will have another go and order the marriage certificate as suggested by Lancashireann. I have to say I wondered if they married in Ireland and that's why I could not find them.
Doreen

Another dead end. Got certificate for Peter and Kate but this is the Peter and Kate of 1881 census, wrong ages and occupations, so back to the drawing board.

didn't find this one before for some reason

Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
>>>>Andrews Catherine W. Derby 8b 791 Scan available - click to view
Sherratt William West Derby 8b 791 Scan available - click to view
>>>>SMITH Peter W. Derby 8b 791 Scan available - click to view
Williams Catherine W. Derby 8b 791 Scan available - click to view

lancs bmd says this one was at St Mary's Kirkdale which v close to Bootle

I tried that one and Peter Smith (full age) Widower married Catherine Andrews (full age) Widow both fathers deceased. If that was our Catherine then she would have had to have married very young. Her fathers name was Robert Kneale so I searched for a Catherine Kneale married to Mr Andrews in the previous five years but nothing. Therefore can't be our Peter Smith.

I'm stuck!

Could we go back to the beginning here Doreen please. How did you arrive at that particular family in 1901? There is another Mary with the 2nd name Josephine living in West Derby and a Peter Smith b 1863 living in Birkenhead.

Through which of the children have you traced back to Peter?

Now you know how I feel!
I started doing this tree over a year ago but it was only when the 1911 census came out that I found Mary's mother and from there her father. I have Mary's marriage certificate to Alfred Eve 1907 in Brixton London, then they returned to Liverpool and was living with Mary's parents. I have had contact with a couple of cousins on the Eve side but other than the marriage and the fact Alfred and Mary moved to Liverpool they can't add more.
I did think I found Peter in London in 1901 but I could not find it again when I tried. Now you know my dilemma
Doreen

I already knew how you felt. I have Jones, with the uninspiring names of mainly William & John in Liverpool! I've been looking for a John's birth/baptism for about 5 years. I even had the starting point of his actual birthday from the family bible but no previous generations. Ah well maybe one day we will find what we seek.

I can't help you with census information I'm afraid as I do not have any access.

I assume Catherine said she was married in 1911 but I think there have been several instances where the 'wife' was actually a widow. Could this be Peter's death?

Deaths Mar 1908 (>99%)
Smith Peter 57 Birkenhead 8a 324

How about using Mary Josephine's birth cert to find out her mother's maidne name?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1886 (>99%)
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SMITH Mary Josephine Liverpool 8b 117

Part of the problem seems to be what is Mary's birth reg as if at all

Births Mar 1886 (>99%)
SMITH Mary Josephine Liverpool 8b 117
Births Jun 1887 (>99%)
Smith Mary Josephine Preston 8c 625 (district should be 8e)

neither of these correspond with 1901 (Bootle = West Derby district) or 1911 = Birkenhead
have you found them in 1891?

edit - not sure if I have got that 1911 one right as I don't have access
if it is the Preston district one it is easy - mmn = Broadbent, but somehow I don't think it is

what was Peter's occupation on Mary's marriage to Alfred Eve - was he still alive

Sorry "K" tried that one, different parents but thanks for trying.

Peter has always been a dockyard laborourer. I have full access on ancestry so have worldwide access all except Ireland so I feel that maybe were it all lies. Peter was alive in 1907 when Mary married Alfred so I will try the 1908 death, nothing to loose except £7. If only all councils were like Medway (in Kent) and publish all Parish records on line, now that would help.
Caroline

where does the 1891 say Mary Josephine was born?

There are quite a lot of Lancs parish records on line but not Cheshire (or West Derby)