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I am looking for anyone who has this connection in their tree...I would love to hear from you...

John Faulkner, occupation farmer, is named as the father of my gt grandfather William Westwell b1851 Salford on both his birth and marriage cert. I am looking for any information on John.

I know someone is also looking for this combination of surnames as there is an entry on "Curious Fox" ...sadly the entry is from a few years ago.

Linda

have you looked on search trees at the top of the page ?

Yes Lindsey...one possible but on contact it was not the same Faulkner family.

Linda x

Just giving one nudge...

nudged again....just incase.

I recently found a death of a John Faulkner...from this cert he died in 1853 ...the address given is Culcheth Hall, Culcheth, Lancashire... aged 24...occupation farmer.

From the 1851 census this Faulkner family were farming on the Culcheth Hall Estate.

Linda

Starting with William, can you point to him in 1861, for instance? This one matches the specs:

Name: William Westwell
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford

Civil Parish: Salford

George Westwell 41
Mary Westwell 39
William Westwell 10


Who was your William's mother? Giving all the info you have makes it more likely that helpful strangers could find something useful, given the odds against actual family members happening by. ;)

I have a birth to a grx3 grmother before her marriage to my grx3 grfather, where the father was named on the certificate, which I thought rather odd. After the marriage, 3 years later, she was taken back into the couple's household from her grandparents, and went by the stepfather's surname.

The father, coincidentally, was a Thomas Falkener. ;)

I've never found him in a census (and the possible spelling variations are of course legion). I wondered whether he had died before the birth, and thus was entered on the certificate as a sort of posthumous acknowledgement that he really *did* mean to marry the mother, he just didn't get around to it on time. Might that be a possibility in your case?

Ah, I think you elaborated while I was typing!

What was the cause of death on the certificate?

Tuberculosis, for instance, was rampant, and could have meant that he was ill for some time before his death, making marriage unwise.

He wasn't otherwise married at all?

What was his mother's name and were was William living when he married

Many thanks EvieBeavie and lancashireann for your interest....I have been searching for John Faulkner for a few years now and it was just a long shot that I added my thread to theTTF board trying to find any member of the Faulkner family on the off chance! I do know at some time someone was looking for the names combination although on a different site a few years ago....I wish I had found the Curious Fox site earlier!!

You are correct EvieBeavie this John did die of TB and your explanation makes sense...thank you. Even though it is always sad to receive a death cert...I was really excited by this one...oh dear!

My Westwell family orginated from Glazebrook, nr Warrington and it was after my 3x gt grandfather William Westwell died in 1848 that the family moved to Salford.

My 2x gt grandmother was Ellen Westwell b1823 Glazebrook although on the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census her birthplace is given as Culcheth, Lancashire. She had 2 illegitimate children Hannah b1847 Glazebrook (no father is named on the cert) and my gt grandfather William. Ellen married in 1857 in Leigh, Lancashire and then moved down to North Wales, leaving her daughter Hannah and my gt grandfather to be brought up by 2 of her sisters and husbands, and started another family!!

On my gt grandfather's 1872 marriage cert to my gt grandmother Betsy Whitfield his father John Faulkner is deceased.

lancashireann do you know if Lancashire Record Office holds any Bastardy Bonds please? I emailed them a few months ago but sadly they didn't reply....and I didn't even ask for a lookup!! I would take a ride up without hesitation if I knew there was some hope!

EvieBeavie I wish you well with your Thomas....it's so frustrating!

Many thanks again for your interest.

Linda x

This is them in 1851 in Culceth?

Martha Faulkner 49 - head, wid, farmer of 340 acres employing 8 labourers
John Faulkner 22 - farmer's son, born Winslow
Nathan Faulkner 20
William Faulkner 18
Mary Faulkner 15
Robert Faulkner 14
Edward Faulkner 12
Joseph Faulkner 10
Alfred Faulkner 4
Lee Mares 17
George Wild 16
Ralph Taylor 14
Mary Ford 24


Is this Westwell in 1851 a relation?

Name: Elizabeth Westwell
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Servant
Where born: Culcheth, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Culcheth

She's on the next page from the Faulkners, on Glovers Farm working for the Taylors.


This is Ellen:

Name: Ellen Westwell
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Servant
>> Where born: Culcheth, Lancashire, England
>> Civil Parish: Barton Upon Irwell
district 1f

You know, there's a closer John Faulkner in 1851 who might be of interest.

Name: John Faulkner
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
>> Where born: Culcheth, Lancashire, England
>> Civil Parish: Barton Upon Irwell
district 1e

Occupation is mechanic fitter, though. But just to throw into the mix! William could have stated farmer for father's occ on his marriage certificate because his own family were farmers ...


The farming Faulkner household, headed by William before his death and Martha, is in district 13, Culcheth, in 1841.

The farming Westwell household, if I have the right one, parents also coincidentally William and Martha, with daughter Elizabeth and others (Ellen had flown already, if this is the right family), are in district 15, Culcheth, in 1941.


Is this Hannah in 1851?

Henry Westwell 36 - born Culcheth
Ellen Westwell 27
> Hannah Westwell 10
Elizabeth Westwell 8
Margaret Westwell 3
Thomas Westwell 1


I seem to have lighted on the wrong Westwells in 1841, but I'm not finding any Westwells born in Glazebrook to speak of -- in 1851, the 1837 Margaret who is in your tree. She looks like this Margaret in 1841 in Culcheth:

James Westwell 40
Ann Westwell 30
Ely Westwell 15
William Westwell 14
Isaac Westwell 12
Thomas Westwell 10
Margaret Westwell 4
N K Westwell 5 Mo

but her father should be William per your last post ...

Where is the Glazebrook place of birth taken from? I can't see Ellen in Wales in a census (did she marry Johnson or Hayes? - still eking out info!).

I'm just confusing myself, so I should stop. ;)

Ah - you inspired me to take another kick at my Thomas Falkener. ;)

There's only one Thomas, a Faulkner, in the vicinity of my girl at the right time - about two pages in the census, and probably about a city block, away from her. Older, and well and truly married at all relevant times. ;)

from the online catalogue Lancs do seem to have some bastardy bonds BUT Culcheth being Warrington is now in Cheshire and it is more probable that they would hold the info either at Warrington library or at the Record Office in Chester, so worth contacting them first

Many thanks for your time and effort Evie...I feel awful that you have gone to so much trouble. Good luck with your Faulkners (spelling).

The other John Faulkner occup mechanic you have found belongs to another GR member that I have been in contact with and sadly he is not mine.

All my Westwell family were cotton weavers and fustion cutters so no farming connection!...clever thinking though Evie.....I wouldn't have thought of that.

The farming Faulkner family you found in 1851 with Martha as head is the family that I am looking at...this John disappears after 1851 ??

That is my 2x gt grandmother Ellen in 1851.

This is my family in 1841...mistranscribed...

Name: William Westwick
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1787
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Warrington
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Warrington
Sub registration district: Rixton
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Westwick 54
Mary Westwick 60
Alice Westwick 30
Mary Westwick 20
William Westwick 18
Ellen Westwick 16
Ann Westwick 7
Margaret Westwick 4

Margaret is the illegitimate child of Alice and it was Alice and her husband Samuel Croft who brought my gt grandfather up in Glazebrook. I still don't know who Ann belongs to but she was also illegitimate...on her 1861 Salford marriage cert no father was named.

In 1851 the name is mistranscribed as Westwele...my 3x gt grandmother Mary is living in Salford with another daughter Hannah b1817 and her husband Peter Almon....along with Ellen's illegitimate daughter Hannah!! HO107/2224 folio 388 page 48. They were living at 1 Dam House, Salford...the birthplace of my gt grandfather William.

I hope I have not confused you even more Evie...my goodness I was certainly confused at the time lol!!

My 2x gt grandmother Ellen married William Hayes...1891 census for Wales...

Name: Ellen Hayes
Age: 64
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Glazebrook, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Mold
Ecclesiastical parish: Pontblyddyn
Town: Leeswood
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Holywell
Sub registration district: Mold
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Hayes 62
Ellen Hayes 64
Robert Hughes 27
Martha Hayes 35
Annie Hughes 1

Ellen sadly died in August 1891.

I hope I have given you all the info Evie....I just keep coming back to this John Faulkner. If he had been named on just one cert I would have thought it was just through bravado but to be stated on both....I don't know!!! Frustrating!!!

Many thanks lancashireann...I did wonder where the Warrington records would be after all the boundary changes...I will chase that up.

Many thanks you have both been great...

Linda x

Still trying to find anyone with the names connection.

Linda x

vague but??

baptism at the same church as Alice's daughter Margaret

Baptism: 20 Jul 1828 St Helen, Hollinfare, Lancashire, England
John Faulkner - [Child] of John Faulkner & Ann
Abode: Cadishead
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: P. S. Dale, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1838 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 3, Entry 21
Source: LDS Film 1469048