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Ancestors of

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Caroline

Caroline Report 8 Oct 2008 00:01

Can any one help with information on ancestors of
Elsie Ball, Married Oswald Henrickson 1919.
I know her father was a William Ball (Lithographer) deceased at time of her marriage.

Marriage took place at Registry Office, Bradford 15 May 1919.
residence at time of marriage 10 Long Row, West Bowling? Bradford

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Oct 2008 00:12

There is an Elsie Ball born in Leeds on the 1901 census who has a father called William. However it is her brother (also William) who is a Lithographer. Could this brother have had a daughter whom he named after his sister Elsie and this is your Elsie??

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Oct 2008 00:19

Could this be Elsie's birth:-

Name: Elsie Ball
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Bradford
County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 122

Does it say on the marriage certificate how old she was at the time of marriage?

Kath. x

Caroline

Caroline Report 8 Oct 2008 12:31

Elsie Ball was 19 at the time of her marriage.
Witnesses to the marriage were Eliza A Ball and Florrie Priestley
Father William was a lithographic printer.

I am assuming that she was born in 1900 - couldn't have been later.

Caroline

Caroline Report 8 Oct 2008 12:37

William Ball (lithographer) may have been her brother if he was following the same trade as his father.
As to the birth record for 1901, perhaps if the birth took place towards end of 1900 it may only have been registered in 1901. Also she may have lied about her age. I believe that Oswald lied about his in order to go to war. He may have been only 20 or 21 (not 24)

Caroline

Caroline Report 13 Feb 2013 01:29

I have now obtained a death certificate for Elsie and it appears she was born in 1899 (possible in Bradford) as that is where she was married.
The death Certificate shows no father's name but gives Elizabeth as the mother's name. She was 19 when she married Oswald Hugo Henrickson on May 15, 1919, so she was probably born in the latter half of 1899 but prior to 26 November (her date of death is 26 November 1934 and lists her age as 35)

Caroline

Caroline Report 13 Feb 2013 02:06

thanks for the infomation and if this is the same person then it may be that i have the mother's name wrong. I see there is a marriage of a Mary Marsden to a William John Ball in 1890

Marriage Record
Name Mary Marsden
Year of Marriage 1890
Quarter of Marriage Apr-May-Jun
Registration District Sheffield
Registration County Yorkshire
Spouse's Surname Only available for records after 1912
Volume Number 9C
Volume Page 754

many thanks

Caroline

vera2010

vera2010 Report 13 Feb 2013 03:55

I note on Elsie's marriage cert a witness is an Eliza A Ball. I have found an Eliza Ball b 1865 in Leeds living in 1891 with her mother Susannah a Widow, her sibling Randolph (Randell) and one child Ethel. Eliza A is single and a working in the printing industry.

Eliza A appears again in 1901 as a widow with three more children Lillian, Albert and
Elsa. Still living in Leeds. She is a Laundress.

In 1911 Eliza A is living with a Thomas Heavyside who was previously married (12years) with 3 children. They are living with Eliza Ann's children, Lillian and Elsie.
Lillian works in the printing industry.. Eliza Ann is a Tailoress. Eliza Ann had 6 children. No record of a marriage.

Eliza Ann's has a sister Martha m to Hodgson. She is widowed in 1911 and living with her children, her mother, Susannah and her brother Randolph (Randall). This family are living in the Bradford area.

Susannah's husband on the 1871 census is a William who is said to be a Compositor. I'm not sure if that is same or similar to a lithographer but could perhaps be the the person that Elsie quoted as her father on her marriage cert.

Vera




.

Caroline

Caroline Report 13 Feb 2013 11:49

Elsie Ball died in New Zealand on 26 November 1934 aged 35.

Unfortunately anyone who may have been able to shed light on this (family wise) is now deceased. All I have is the marriage certificate and the death certificate. As Elsie died in a psychiatric hospital, family members were reluctant to talk about it and information was not forthcoming about her English family. It has remained a mystery. Mind you her husband was also a bit of a mystery and not forthcoming about his ancestors so it just makes things harder.

I dont know who supplied the name of Elsie's mother on the death certificate and her father's name is missing from it. In fact the details on the death certificate are very vague.

Elsie and Oswald Hugo Henrickson were my husband's maternal grandparents.

Vera, it could be that Eliza A Ball is Elsie's sister-in-law.

Caroline

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 13 Feb 2013 13:26

On the 1911 census Elsie Ball (who is living at the same address as Thomas Heavyside) is described as the daughter of Eliza A. Ball. It says Elsie was born in Leeds. This looks as if it's her birth:-


Name: BALL, Elsie
Registration district: Leeds
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1900
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 9B
Page no: 535

She could have been born in either November or December of 1899 and still registered in 1900.

Ages on marriage and death certificates are often wrong as on marriages sometimes people lie for all sorts of reasons and on deaths it is down to how well the informant knows the information given.

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 13 Feb 2013 13:32

I think Vera has the correct family because although Eliza A. Ball describes herself as a widow in the 1901 and 1911 census this is her in the 1891 census described as single:-

1891 census transcription details for: 15, Recovery Street, Leeds

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 3694
Folio: 122
Page: 22
Reg. District: Leeds
Sub District: North Leeds
Parish: Leeds
Enum. District: 65
Ecclesiastical District: St John the Baptist
City/Municipal Borough: Leeds

Address: 15, Recovery Street, Leeds
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

BALL, Susannah Head Widow F 60 1831 Charwoman
Leeds, Yorkshire
BALL, Randolph Son Single M 18 1873 Mechanic
Leeds, Yorkshire
BALL, Eliza Ann Daughter Single F 26 1865 Book Pager
Leeds, Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BALL, Ethel Granddaughter F 3 1888
Leeds, Yorkshire

If Elsie was illegitimate if was often the case that an illegitimate person would "make up" a deceased father when they married to "save face" in front of the in-laws.

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 13 Feb 2013 13:36

Eliza A. Ball in the 1881 census:-

1881 census transcription details for: 3, Parker Court, Leeds

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 4520
Folio: 101
Page: 40
Reg. District: Leeds
Sub District: North Leeds
Parish: Leeds
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 3, Parker Court, Leeds
County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

BALL, Susannah Head Married F 46 1835 Charwoman
Leeds, Yorkshire
BALL, Eliza A Daughter Single F 16 1865 Bookbinder
Leeds, Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BALL, Randolph Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar
Leeds, Yorkshire
CARTER, Ann Lodger Single F 20 1861 Tailoress
Leeds, Yorkshire
BALL, Martha Daughter Single F 14 1867 Tailoress
Leeds, Yorkshire

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 13 Feb 2013 13:38

This looks like Eliza's birth:-

Name: BALL, Eliza Ann
Registration district: Leeds
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1864
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 9B
Page no: 369

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 13 Feb 2013 13:45

Eliza A. Ball in the 1871 census:-

1871 census transcription details for: Falcon Street, Leeds

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 4556
Folio: 22
Page: 37
Reg. District: Leeds
Sub District: Leeds, North
Parish: Leeds
Enum. District: 53
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Leeds

Address: Falcon Street, Leeds
County: Yorkshire

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

BALL, Randolph Head M 34 1837 Yorkshire
BALL, Susanna Wife F 38 1833 Yorkshire
BALL, Emily J Daughter F 15 1856 Yorkshire
BALL, Eliza A Daughter F 6 1865 Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BALL, Martha Daughter F 4 1867 Yorkshire

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 13 Feb 2013 13:51

This looks like the witness from the marriage (Florrie Priestly) in the 1911 census at the house next door to the address given on the marriage certificate:-

1911 Census transcription details for: 8 Long Row West Bowling Bradford

National Archive Reference: RG14PN26701 RG78PN1539 RD498 SD1 ED27 SN52
Reg. District: Bradford
Sub District: Bowling
Parish: Bradford
Enum. District: 27

Address: 8 Long Row West Bowling Bradford
County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

PRIESTLEY, Orland Head Married M 36 1875 Hawker Greengrocer Yorkshire Bradford
PRIESTLEY, Rebecca Wife Married
14 years F 36 1875 Charwoman Baildon Yorkshire
PRIESTLEY, Edith Daughter F 12 1899 School Halft Time Doffer Yorkshire Bradford
PRIESTLEY, Ernest Son M 6 1905 Yorkshire Bradford
PRIESTLEY, Florance Daughter F 5 1906 Yorkshire Bradford<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Perhaps between 1911 and the date of the marriage Florrie's family moved to the house next door (lots of people rented houses in those days and moved several times into houses in the same street - I know my family did) and perhaps Elsie was just visiting her and gave her address on the certificate.

Kath. x

Mary

Mary Report 13 Feb 2013 15:09

Elsie's brother
Albert Ball 27/10/1897 mum Eliza Ann Ball and Patrick Milligan Lithograhic Printer Journey man born 1864 died 1899??
Albert on 1901 census with mumEliza Ann and sisters Ethel 1887,Lillian 1895 and Elsa(Elsie)1899 in leeds.

Albert Ball married 1922 in West Bowling address 10,Long Row(same as Elsie's on her marriage).
Albert married Florence Pollard dad given as William Ball deceased.

Albert born 27/10/1897 baptised 11/9/1907 St Matthews Leeds. by Willie Ball (deceased )and Eliza Ann of 37,Reuben Street,also baptised at the same time were Arthur born 28/9/1902 by Willie and Eliza Ann Ball
John William Ball born 7/3/1907 baptised by Eliza Ann only!!

Albert's birth certificate and marriage cert on tree on Ancestry.co.uk.

There is a Patrick Milligan born leeds @ 1867 to Daniel and catherine,he is still single and with them in 1911 with a death in leeds 1912.

Maryb.

vera2010

vera2010 Report 13 Feb 2013 15:47

Meant to say last night that the area Martha Hodgson (nee Ball) Eliza Ann's sister lived in Bradford on the 1911 census was in the Bowling district of Bradford. So maybe Elsie lived near her Aunt prior to marriage.

Vera

Caroline

Caroline Report 15 Feb 2013 02:07

Mary I think you have cracked it for me. My Elsie had daughters Lilian and Betty Ethel. also her eldest daughter was named Florence so with these name matches it seems likely that you have got the right ones.

Again the first born was a boy who died very young named Oswald Arthur - Oswald for his father and presumably Arthur after Elsie's brother. Or at least it makes sense that way to me.