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Unfortunately that William has a son William already.


The batch I was looking at:

William Williams 33
Mary Williams 35
Mary E Williams 8
Thomas Williams 6
Margaret Williams 4
Mary Alice Williams 3
Georgina Williams 1

with the Margaret (Maggie?) and Mary -- that William is a Labourer (Builders).

Close ... His neighbours are a Bricklayers Labourer and a Plasterer.

James WILLIAMS Head M Male 44 Lpool, Lancashire, England Painter
Mary WILLIAMS Wife M Female 40 Lpool, Lancashire, England
James WILLIAMS Son Male 9 Lpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
John WILLIAMS Son Male 7 Lpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
Wm. WILLIAMS Son Male 3 Lpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
Johana WILLIAMS Daughter Female 1 Lpool, Lancashire, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 42 Oliver Str
Census Place West Derby, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341887
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3706 / 60
Page Number 23

this may be totally irrelevant but this Wm's brother is a paperhanger in 1881. As he was a journeyman in 1903 he should also have been a paperhanger in 1901 - probably journeyman as apprentices usually were not allowed to marry during their apprenticeship. My dad's apprenticeship as a painter & decorator was for 5 yeras.

Elizth. WILLIAMS Head W Female 49 Wexford, Ireland Charwoman
John J. WILLIAMS Son Male 14 Lpool Paperhanger
Margrt. WILLIAMS Daughter Female 9 Lpool Scholar
Wm. WILLIAMS Son Male 6 Lpool Scholar
Sarah CAVE Lodger W Female 60 Fazakerley Charwoman
Jane PERCY Lodger W Female 47 Wales Cook
Source Information:
Dwelling 92 Gordon St
Census Place Everton, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341877
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3660 / 58
Page Number 48

Birth cert states that William occupation was Painter and Paper hanger (Journey Man)

Also one of Mary and Williams sons was called William Richard Williams born Sept 1902 b.West Derby.

Thanks for your help.

Oops, I wandered off in the middle of composing that message.

Good idea. Birth certificate. Then we pick up.

Good then.

Heh, _a_ William married a Mary Richardson.

It being an adoptive family and notihing known like father's name, we can't be too sure!

If that 1901 household looks right, we can try to track him back and get a father's name, e.g.

I mean, it's not like there are too many William Williams-s in the Liverpool area ... hahaha!

I will be back tomorrow cannot take anymore in tonight. but just want to say a big thank you to all of you i hope you continue to help me. If I ever sort this out it will champagne all round.
Cheers.
Jean

Before I go I am now going to try and buy a copy of William and Marys son William Richard Williams's birth certificate. I do have definate details of his birth date. Hopefully I will get an address and maybe Mary's former name and William's occupation in 1902. Fingers crossed everybody.

Cheers again

might be worth getting William Richard's birth cert to prove who his mother was

1984 marriage William did marry Mary Richardson (lancashirebmd.org)

How does this batch look in 1901?


William Williams 33
Mary Williams 35
Mary E Williams 8
Thomas Williams 6
Margaret Williams 4
Mary Alice Williams 3
Georgina Williams 1


Someone (Georgina?) might not have survived childhood.

There's a Maggie and a Mary there.

How about Mary Richardson?


Marriages Jun 1894
Baker William James Liverpool 8b 234
LUCAS Fanny Liverpool 8b 234
? Richardson Mary Liverpool 8b 234
? Williams William Henry Liverpool 8b 234


That's the only candidate in that area in that time period.


Now, back to the questions.

>>> What was William's occupation stated to be on Louisa's birth certificate??

Just update my previous message

Ah. Townsend Lane. Williams, Johnson. Now I remember that thread.

Looking at 107 Townsend Lane at google maps on satellite view .. all I can make out is roof! The other two addresses no longer exist as such.


Ah, so she wasn't taken in by the Williamses right at birth.

If one of those 1903 marriages were your William -- you don't know who he and Mary were, dates and places of birth etc.? -- it might sound rather like he and Louisa had been together (if not exclusively) and he broke it off to marry Mary, and left Louisa in the lurch.

Thank you so much you have been busy thanks.

Yes! The cert states that my mum was born at 107 Townsend Lane W.D. and also states that was her mothers Louisa's residence,Louisa also registered the birth. So maybe she chose to put Williams name on it. Maybe she just used that address. I know she wasn't at that add in 1901 I checked the add out.

And Yes! Mary and William had eight other children and I know the eldest two were called Emily and Florrie not sure what order the others came in but William Richard was born 1902 I am sure of that. I also think Maggie and Mary were born before 1903 the others I think were younger than my Mum as far as I know. So Mary and William already had a few children.

I know my Mum was very very young and hear say has it that she was left on the door step of William's House with a note saying it was just as much their responsiblity. Whether this was true God only knows. She never ever new her mother.

Thanks for all the help you are giving to me . I can tell you this has been one big headache trying to work it all out.
P.S.( Mary Williams former name was we think RICHARDS) not sure though.
Cheers. Jean

Questions for when you come back, Jean, just to organize them:

Is there an address on the birth certificate for the parents?

Is your William Williams's occupation stated on the birth certificate?

Did William Williams and Mary have other children of their own (or adopted)?

Two William Williams-s may have married Marys in Sep quarter 1903 in West Derby.

One may have married a Mary Hagan, the other may have married a Mary Ann Boyle.


Is your William Williams's occupation stated on the birth certificate btw Jean - as well as an address?

In 1901 there is this Mary Boyle, again in Dale St subregistration district:

Name: Mary Boyle
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Servant
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
District 5

There were others too, of course.


I'm also not quite clear on whether William Williams and Mary had other children of their own.

Seriously there -- I just looked at Google maps.

She was at 29 Cockspur St. He was at 14 Vauxhall Rd. Assuming that was the south end of Vauxhall Rd. near the docks (which is where he would be), they would have been - literally - right around the corner from each other.

I would like to be delicate here ... Louisa was an immigrant of sorts, a young woman living near the docks, with no occupation stated on the census.

I once ran across someone I suspected of being an ancestor of mine in an earlier census, listed with a group of women in a lodging house in London, with a long bracket alongside their names and this notation:

"Refused to give the woman in charge of the lodging house their various occupations
Let beds by the night no chance of getting information the next day"

I wonder whether that Louisa on Cockburn Street, at least, might have fallen into unfortunate circumstances.

Look who is living just around the corner from that Louisa in 1901.


Name: William Williams
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Occupation: [something] Labourer
(the person above him, born in Ireland, is Dock Labourer, and someone else on the page is the same labourer as William, but I can't read either one)
Condition as to marriage: Single

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul


Louisa is in Dale Street, district 3. He is in district 4.

Do you know when William Williams and his wife Mary, who raised Louisa Jr, were married?

It is sounding like William and Louisa were not married but they pretended they were because he chose to raise the child, presumably his child, but maybe never to acknowledge that fact.

I will place my bet on this being Louisa Johnson in 1901:

Name: Louisa Johnson
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Occupation: blank
(the young woman above her is a servant, domestic)
Condition as to marriage: Single
Civil Parish: Liverpool


You know, I also wonder whether it wasn't a "formal" adoption in the only way there could be then.

A childless couple who wanted a child, an unmarried woman who wanted a family to place her child with. Best idea? Register the husband of the couple as being the father.

Is there an address on the birth certificate for the parents?

The cert I have is a hand written copy. Which was obtain on 8/9/1969. by my mother. It was sent from Somerset House London

Regards
Jean