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Anyone want to clear up a 129 year old mystery?
Henry Blake Gibbons, b 1854 is my great grandfather.
He married Amanda Lethbridge in Plymouth, Devon in 1879
They had a child, Henry Blake Gibbons b.1880
Then he disappeared.
Rumoured to have "died at sea or abroad"
Have checked the records, Military. Nothing.
Listed in 1861, 71, 81 census. Last living at 48 Gainsford St, Horsleydown, Southwark with wife and family and father and mother. (1881 census)
Amanda isnt even listed in the 1891 census, but is lkisted in the 1901 census under the ASSUMED name of Amanda Hole, widow, now living in Plymouth. My grandfather, Henry Blake Gibbons, b.1880,d.1948, never knew either his mother or father, and was living, aged 11 with his mother's sister in Devon in 1881 (Kate and Richard Sutton, mis transcribed Lutton!)
Anyone knowing of his father, HBG b.1854, or any of HBG's siblings, (Anne,b.1860, Roseabel Imeira,b. 1867/8, Charles, b. 1866/7 (md Tamzin Collins 1890)Ada, b. 1870, Frances b 1864 or Frederick, b. 1872 d. 1928( md Isabelle Mercy Green)...
PLEASE contact me...

I have all the records of these people up to and including the 1911 census... but dear old Henry Blake Gibbons 1854 is an utter mystery.

By the way, his father was also Henry Blake Gibbons, b. 1826 d 1895 (died in Wycombe) as did HIS father, Henry A.Gibbons b. 1798 d 1891. I have no record of Henry Blake 's (b.1826) mother either! Looks like he was illegitimate as Henry A Gibbons married Mary Venable shortly after HBG was born in 1826.

My uncle, now 80 has been searching his entire life. It is his greatest wish to find the truth about his granfather.

If anyone can help, you have no idea how appreciated it would be.

Many thanks

Phil Carter (not Edith Radcliff as shown)

Phil
www.Findmypast.com has some deaths at sea records, there is one that may fit but no first name is given.
folio 5961 Blake age 28 died of phthisis abt 1882/83

1854-58 Deaths BLAKE W Male VIEW
1858-65 Deaths BLAKE E Female VIEW
1858-65 Deaths BLAKE G Male VIEW
1858-65 Deaths BLAKE J Male VIEW
1865-71 Deaths BLAKE C Male VIEW
1865-71 Deaths BLAKE W VIEW
1865-71 Deaths BLAKE Male VIEW
1872-83 Deaths BLAKE E Female VIEW
1872-83 Deaths BLAKE Male VIEW
1883-87 Deaths BLAKE A Female VIEW
1883-87 Deaths BLAKE A Male VIEW
1883-87 Deaths BLAKE E Female VIEW
1883-87 Deaths BLAKE I Female VIEW
1883-87 Deaths BLAKE M Female VIEW
1888-90 Deaths BLAKE E Female VIEW

sorry should have been looking for Gibbons not Blake! Will try again!

The unfortunate thing is that if anyone other than family registered his death, they may not have known of his middle name. There are a lot of deaths that may match, but without buying the certs for every one, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm not being defeatist, if it's out there someone will find it!! Cheers Linda :)

there is this on findmypast,

GIBBONS Henry D1929 B1853 Wiltshire Wiltshire Memorial Inscription Index

Nothing under deaths at sea to match.

no luck with Gibbons deaths at sea.

I don't suppose you know the name of the ship he worked on ?


http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingoncrewlists.html

The only possible answer to him being alive is that he found another woman. He cannot have married her, because Amanda Lethbridge died in 1902 as a widow. Have looked into all marraiges etc, and it seems unlikely. Only ONE death hasnt been checked out, a H.Gibbons who died in Hants in 1886...but there is no earthly reason for him being there. Apart from London, his only other known connection is Plymouth. Thank you so much for your kind efforts. I am very grateful for any help in this matter.

He IS listed a amerchant seaman, (steward) on his marraige certificate though. However, all efforts on that front have so far come to nothing. I am truly indebted to you all for your help in this. I was kind of hoping that PERHAPS someone related to his siblings would know, but again, a strange thing there too, Charles, his brother, lived his life in New Malden, and HBG jbr b.1880lived HIS whole life in Teddington. Yet knew of NO other family members on his father's side!

There is a death on the chaplains register from 1880 mfrom Malta, but that is an army record. Another in 1889 in India, again, army.

Again. A complete mystery all round. Hopeful isnt the word, but, well, you never know! Many thanks to you all ...fingers crossed

Merchant Navy
http://www.mna.org.uk/Research.htm
http://www.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/famhistory_merchant2007.pdf
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/merchant/

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=129

I believe that mechant seaman had a registration card which maybe held by the National Archives

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=128

regarding Hampshire (Hants) , Portsmouth has a big naval dock (Portsea)
also Southampton where a lot of ships sail from

This is Amanda's household in 1901:

Amanda M Hole 43 - lodging house keeper, married
William Hole 23
Alice Hole 19
Sydney Hole 17
Charles E Hole 14
Edward Owen 26
Alfred G Potter 19

Those children had to come from somewhere!

And they surely do resemble these children in the 1891 in Plymouth St Andrew:

William G Hole 40 - cook Royal Navy
Matilda Hole 39 - lodging house keeper
Harriett M Hole 15
> William H Hole 11
> Sydney C Hole 9
Elizabeth L Hole 6
> Charles E Hole 4
Amanda A Reed 11 - niece
Grace Percival 25 - lodgers
Harry Percival 23
Rloyd Young 24


In fact, they're the same household -- on North Road in each year.

Getting you anywhere? ;)

It looks like maybe Amanda hooked up with William Hole at some point between 1891 and 1901.

Unless that is Amanda in 1891, just overstating her age.


A coincidental name, in view of the names of the two Ms. Hole lodging house keepers:

Deaths Dec 1892
HOLE Amanda Matilda 17 Plymouth 5b 187


Your Amanda, not an Amanda Matilda:

Marriages Dec 1879
Gibbons Henry Blake Plymouth 5b 493
Lethbridge Amanda Malvina Plymouth 5b 493

What do you think are the chances that William Hole and Matilda Hole are just plain Henry Gibbons and Amanda Gibbons?

Certainly possible. The Amanda M Hole in the 1891 census looks to be MY Amanda Malvina Gibbons too with the wrong age. But there is one thing that stops all this, THOSE CHILDREN cannot all have been hers. As she married in 1879 to Henry Blake Gibbons, and they are registered together in the 1881 census living in Horsleydown, Southwark, London with HIS parents and their child (my grandad b. 1880).

We know of her movements in 1895. She turned up at her father in law's funeral and was witness on HIS death certificate ...in Bedlow, Bucks. She worked there too, As she is shown on the census from 1901 as being there. She took with her her sister in law (Ada Gibbons)....

So what she was doing in 1891 if she WASN'T Amanda M Hole is beyond me.

Thanks so much for the relevant merchant seamans sites, will investigate more.

I have tried every variation of Amanda Malvina Gibbons/Lethbridge in the census of 1891 and cant find her at all.

The A.M. Hole dying in 1892 is 17 yrs old. That would make her born in 1875...MY Amanda was only 16/17 in 1875, so it cant be her. She was living in Plymouth with her father at that time. Amanda Lethbridge's real mother died in 1873. (Ellen)

Unless the Hole thing is a red herring...that ISNT her. Then she has literally NOT been entered into the 1891 census at all. She hasnt got her 11 year old son living with her...he is with his aunt. (In Plymouth)

The Aunt didnt marry her husband before 1890, so where was HE between 1881 and 1890?

There are no births between 1880 and 1902 (when A.M.Gibbons nee Lethbridge died) that match up either.

All very strange.

Thank you again, so much for your help in this matter. 129 years of mystery...and the answer is still out there. HaHaHa... The twilight zone eh?

best wishes

Phil

Just to add to it all -- William G Hole and Matilda Hole in 1881:


Name: George Hall
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Matilda
Where born: Plymouth, Devon, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
> Occupation: Cook (NO)
(I think it says ND, which might be Not Domestic)

Civil Parish: Plymouth St Andrew
County/Island: Devon
Street address: 139 North Rd

Registration district: Plymouth
Sub registration district: St Andrew

George Hall 30
Matilda Hall 30
Minnie Hall 5
William Hall 3
Walter Reed 21 - lodger, printer
Robert Reed 18 - lodger, seaman

So Matilda does have independent existence.

Finally, a birth to go with those names:

Births Mar 1878
HOLE William George H Plymouth 5b 294

Which means that Matilda Hole isnt Amanda Malvina Gibbons nee Lethbridge b. 1858....so where the ???? is she in the 1891 census?---hmmmm

And the marriage.

Marriages Jun 1876
Hole William Taunton 5c 522
Scammell Matilda Taunton 5c 522

So at least now we have an idea of who they are!

Well, this is interesting.

Births Jun 1880
LETHBRIDGE Sydney Garnet V Plymouth 5b 309


Sydney G Hole, not Sydney C Hole, in 1891?


If Amanda had hooked up with someone else and was having children with him, but was still married to Henry Gibbons (who had maybe disappeared?), the children might have been registered under her birth surname. And her son from her marriage maybe not welcome in the new household.


Possible matches for other Hole children:

Births Sep 1883
LETHBRIDGE Alice Louisa Plymouth 5b 237

Births Jun 1886
LETHBRIDGE Lilian Elizabeth Plymouth 5b 289
(Elizabeth L, if going by middle name)


Except that this doesn't all quite fit with the 1891 George-Matilda Hole household ... it's not a perfect theory! Yet. ;)

Phil I'm confused................do you have Amanda in Bledlow in 1901 - not Plymouth as Amanda M Hole?

"We know of her movements in 1895. She turned up at her father in law's funeral and was witness on HIS death certificate ...in Bedlow, Bucks. She worked there too, As she is shown on the census from 1901 as being there. She took with her her sister in law (Ada Gibbons)....

So what she was doing in 1891 if she WASN'T Amanda M Hole is beyond me."
??????
Julie

I think the Marriage of William Hole and Matilda Scammell is accounted for in the census' in North Curry Somerset

Uh oh. Yes, I haven't been tracking forward yet -- like those Lethbridge births, to see whether they're accounted for.

Okay, better births.

Births Dec 1883
HOLE Alice Beatrice Plymouth 5b 231

Births Sep 1886
Hole Charles Edward Plymouth 5b 276