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Thanks again to you both, just a waiting game for now !!

well it might unlock somthing,you never know,if it turns out to be his daughter,there might just be a clue,and still possible that Daniel the father is irish,
then there are the witnesses on that marriage ,who knows,john might be one,That would be good,keep your fingers crossed ,Dea and i arn't finished yet,we could still find more,
Let's just wait and see before you waste your money,

Thanks will do that, if this is Daniel Hogans daughter do you think its getting close to a find ?? Still can't believe the Wales ( if its right) connection when i almost gave up, thinking if he was Irish i didn't stand a chance of finding anything
Are there any other certificates you need for cross reference?
Sue

Susan,the signiture of Mccarthy would have been written by him only.the rest of the writing on the cert would have been by someone else,the witnesses would have to sign their own name,or put a x by the name if they didn't.

If you do send for the cert. put Daniel down as the father.of Mary,if it is wrong they won't send it and you should get half your money refunded.

Hi
The J in McCarthy does not look like the J in John Hogan or John Shea. The whole certificate seems to be written by the same person. Wish i could actually show it to you. But i'll go with the J and send for the marriage certificate tonight so it should be here Wed/Thurs next week, its always so frustrating having that wait !!

Thank you.

Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
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Hogan Mary K McCarthy Swansea 11a 2418
McCarthy James Hogan Swansea 11a 2418

The district Swansea spans the boundaries of the counties of Glamorgan and West Glamorgan

this is the marriage which led me to the welsh family.
susan,you say that the witness on John Hogans marriage is
I or T Mccarthy ,could it be a J with the top crossed. if so then James could be his brother inlaw as you know we found a Mary Hogan in Glamorgan ,
i wonder if it would be worth your while,getting that marriage,to see if Mary's father is Daniel Hogan,
at this point,it is tempting.and they did marry in glamorgan.there might be some clues there.
strange ,but i can't find any children for them except this one which could be a missprint

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
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Mcarthy Dennis Horgan Pontypridd 11a 946

Probably a slip of the old brain sorry, that was my mum's married name and my maiden name.

Hi Susan,

On an earlier post, you mentioned the name Lang??

Was this a mistake, if not, where does this name fit in please?

Dea x

Hi Sablon and Dea.

The info i have is so limited i'm afraid. its a long complicated story but in short I have half brother also called John Hogan ! He lived in Redcar where my grandparents were, but did not really know them either. He knew when John Snr. died I did not know any of them at all.
So he knew grandfathers name John Hogan, grandmother Gertrude.

John Hogan Snr:
I worked back from death to work out year of birth and managed to find marriage certificate.

Found all my mum's siblings siblings bar 2, 1 of which Sablon found so just one missing now. It was assumed he was irish because he was a chatholic and Tatty boat was mentioned at some time.

Gertrude:
again all i have is marriage certificate and death certificate i have not been able to find birth certificate as i do not know where she was born.
I did find a Gertrude Shea in the 1901 census. but it says father Edward . ( american British subject) Mother Mary born Carnarvan and sister Nellie but had no proof this was her.

Sorry i can't give you anything definate to go on. Sue

I think this is unlikely to be her death Sablon.

Dea x

Dea,on page 5 i have put a possible death for Alice McCarthy
would she have gone under her maiden name on reg of deaths ?

i don't know if this is gertrudes first husband not much info as gertrude was widowed young between 1914-1918
Name: SOWDEN, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 33
Date of Death: 08/04/1915
Service No: 11404
Additional information: Son of William and Mary Sowden.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 20.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL


bought the marriage forward

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
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Shea Gertrude M A Sowden Middlesbro 9d 1300
Sowden James S Shea Middlesbro 9d 1300

hi Dea
your right.but i do love a challenge,don't you?

I believe I found him on a census and this would be his parent's marriage:

Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
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Cox Timothy Stourbridge 6c 297
***Gill Sarah Stourbridge 6c 297
Hodgets Emma Stourbridge 6c 297
HODGETTS Emma Stourbridge 6c 297
***Williams John Stourbridge 6c 297

I don't think this one is yet on the Welsh side.

I think we are both becoming 'obsessed here - I am going to take a further look 'from the beginning' as I fear we are finding too many possibles here?

We need just one 'real' connection.

Dea x

Susan
found a possible brother to daniel hogan married in same place ,
Have you anything else that you know of to help pin this down
what were your leeds?
do you have any info on gertrude?

there are loads of Joseph williams born in Merthyr Tydfil without a marriage cert/would be difficult to pin him down
but his name is Joseph Gill williams and i found this marriage for Gill / williams,might be wrong so
mary williams could be related,who knows



Marriages Jun 1888 (>99%)
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Davies Richard Pontypridd 11a 611
GILL Walter Pontypridd 11a 611
PARSONS Ellen Pontypridd 11a 611
WILLIAMS Mary Ann Pontypridd 11a 611

and the opposite ,mary gill

Marriages Dec 1889 (>99%)
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Brereton George Swansea 11a 1428
Davies Margaret Swansea 11a 1428
Gill Mary Ann Swansea 11a 1428
WILLIAMS William George Swansea 11a 1428

Hi Sue,

Don't get too 'carried away' just yet - REMEMBER !! - all these are only 'possibles' !!!! - None of them have been 'proved' to be connected!

We just need to find that little bit of real proof which will connect up the right ones.

Grandson just gone home so I will see if I can find anything.

Dea x

1891 census

John Shea abt 1866 Wales , Yorkshire

Oh Sablon and Dea i don't know what to say I'm speechless i know i keep saying it but how do you do it? I'm only on leads from way back and you are both hurtling along.!! I can't believe that there may be a welsh connection but lots of things are jumping out, unless thats just my wishful thinking !! I am trying to keep up with you , honest !


Sue